Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 37
  1. #16
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    I haven't read the comic in question but I have questions about the events being portrayed.

    Thor + Odin Force + Power Cosmic =/= Anywhere near Galactus' league.

    Like, from what I recall of Odin throwing down Big G over the Life Seed, Odin was able to hold Galactus' attention in a slugfest but couldn't actually really do all that much to him. Compared to the Odin Force, what Thor himself and the Power Cosmic bring to the table is, at best, effectively superficial.

    So, I guess, this "was pushing around Big G" opponent that Thor messes with - who is this and what did they actually do?
    The Black Winter is a cosmic primordial force blah blah blah that exists basically to destroy the universe. Galactus, the only survivor of the previous universe, is the only being with a chance to beat the Black Winter. But his basic power level is grossly insufficient for the task. To get the energy he needs he must eat 5 specific planets that have a specific kind of energy. Thor is made aware of this, and won't let Big G just slaughter the populations, so he elects to act temporarily a a Herald to make sure that nobody dies. Big G charges him up.

    Anyway, the Black Winter was coming, before Galactus was ready to face it, so Thor, fully empowered with Thor-ness, Odin-ness and Galactus-ness, unleashes hell against the Winter. And restrains it for 14 seconds. This force is explicitly presented as universe-busting, and significantly more powerful then Galactus, and it hasn't had any trouble destroying stuff unimpeded up until now.

    That's about it, really. The arc is only 4 issues old, Thor has only been Ultra Instinct for 3, so, feats are light outside of the ones presented so far.

    I agree, it doesn't make sense that a herald-level of power cosmic moves the needle compared to Thor and Odinforce together, but it's presented as a powerup for the guy, and, as we've seen with a couple of outliers, Galactus can give more or less power as he chooses, AND AND the PC sometimes seems to expand upon natural abilities. So PC amping someone who's already a skyfather might be a bigger deal then when it amps a normal dude.
    Last edited by big_adventure; 03-24-2020 at 03:29 AM.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."
    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,967

    Default

    I agree, it doesn't make sense that a herald-level of power cosmic moves the needle compared to Thor and Odinforce together, but it's presented as a powerup for the guy.
    The first part of that sentence makes the last part of that sentence pretty ignorable then by board standards. Especially for the notion of staving off universe destroying force with any significance.

  3. #18
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    The first part of that sentence makes the last part of that sentence pretty ignorable then by board standards. Especially for the notion of staving off universe destroying force with any significance.
    Look, what we are shown is that Thor, with the powerups in question, can briefly impede a force that can wipe the universe. How you want to explain that is, I suppose, up to you, or the writer if said writer ever decides to do so.

    I proposed, in a continuation of the paragraph you partially quoted, a reason for that. I don't know if that's correct, I don't know if the writer has even thought about how all of this works together (hint: said writer almost surely hasn't considered this).

    So, we are faced with either taking what we see at face value, namely that this perticular version of amped up Thor can do what this particular amped up version of Thor actually does on panel, or we can chuck it out as being a bridge too far. Given that this particular verison of Thor has only the feats we have on panel in his oh-so-brief run, I don't know why we'd chuck his feats out.

    We are also presented with the Power Cosmic explicitly powering him up from his normal Thor + Odinforce form. So again, we can ignore that, I just don't see why we would, given that it's quite literally all we have to go for at this point.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."
    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,967

    Default

    We get shown lots of things in comics. When they glaringly contradict other things in comics where those things have previously showed up, be they the Odin force, be they herald scale power cosmic oomph, we weigh them against that. That's the board.


    So, we are faced with either taking what we see at face value,
    "It happened so it counts" does not suddenly become a thing because Thor.

    So again, we can ignore that, I just don't see why we would, given that it's quite literally all we have to go for at this point.
    Because we've seen both what heralds can do, and what the Odin Force can do, and neither in any valid, again by board standards, sense come close to "can stave off universal destroying force for some meaningfully nonzero amount of time." The idea that combining the two would regardless allow for this flies wildly in the face of either.

    The only argument to then not ignore that would boil down to "well this happened now, so we're ignoring everything that would go to otherwise"

    Which is again pretty much "it happened so it counts."
    Last edited by Pendaran; 03-24-2020 at 06:02 AM.

  5. #20

    Default

    Important to note is that Thor did flat zero damage to the Black Winter. Nor did he seem to stop its movement, just slow its approach by a handful of seconds.

    I never meant to suggest it was a feat of universal level. Just that it arguably outshines the Stormbreaker smashing based on presentation and the sheer size of the thing.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,967

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Important to note is that Thor did flat zero damage to the Black Winter. Nor did he seem to stop its movement, just slow its approach by a handful of seconds.

    I never meant to suggest it was a feat of universal level. Just that it arguably outshines the Stormbreaker smashing based on presentation and the sheer size of the thing.
    If the Black Winter is universal destroying force, then Thor with the combined power of Odin and a herald of Galactus slowing it down is Thor with the combined power of Odin and a Herald of Galactus slowing down universal destroying force. And thus nothing particularly worth consideration.

  7. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    If the Black Winter is universal destroying force, then Thor with the combined power of Odin and a herald of Galactus slowing it down is Thor with the combined power of Odin and a Herald of Galactus slowing down universal destroying force. And thus nothing particularly worth consideration.
    Eh. I get what you are saying.

    I guess I'm personally taking the "universe level" nature of the thing with a grain of salt so far. Other then beating up Galactus (off panel) it seems to operate on a much smaller level then that. Its behaving more like an angry Sun Eater then anything else so far.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  8. #23

    Default

    Actually, scratch that. There is an on screen panel of the thing seemingly crushing a universe in its "hand". So.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,967

    Default

    Well there you go then, the whole "that's nonsense as a performance for Thor given board standards" remains where it is.

  10. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Well there you go then, the whole "that's nonsense as a performance for Thor given board standards" remains where it is.
    I agree. Odin + a little extra has no business being in that weight class.

    Edit: How tough would you say current Thor is then? My gut says beyond Thanos due to the Stormbreaker feat.
    Last edited by The Arbiter; 03-24-2020 at 11:35 AM.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,967

    Default

    If he's really Thor with the Odin Force, then, I mean, he should be as tough as the Odin Force unless this turns into a JMS Thor situation.

  12. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    If he's really Thor with the Odin Force, then, I mean, he should be as tough as the Odin Force unless this turns into a JMS Thor situation.
    That's kinda my point. Odin Force in general has been inconsistent in recent memory.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,967

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    That's kinda my point. Odin Force in general has been inconsistent in recent memory.
    If he one moved Stormbreaker that's a solid point in his favour of it being more traditional.

  14. #29
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    If he one moved Stormbreaker that's a solid point in his favour of it being more traditional.
    He one-shotted Stormbreaker, yes. Stormbreaker isn't there anymore.

    Aaaaannnnnnnnyway, back to the previous thing:

    I am not claiming at all that Thor is operating at universe busting levels. With extreme effort, he held back a universe busting force for 14 seconds.

    I went back and read the fight with Bill again. Thor briefly gives up the PC to show Bill that he's not Galactus' pawn. As Thor and Bill are getting ready to dance more (after Thor smashed Bill into a planet with, as stated above, extinction-level force, with a casual backhand), Galactus gets mad at Thor and tries to enforce control over him with the PC. Thor LOLNopes this, and actually does some damage to Big G.

    After the fight, in the next issue, Thor goes and takes power cosmic back from Galactus, against Galactus' will.

    The Stormbreaker smash is a little different than I initially recalled (I'd read the issue drunk, I think): Thor and Bill are tusseling. Thor doesn't want to fight, but does. Thor, at one point, looking to end it, chucks Mjolnir at Bill, who had been laid out on the ground a bit before. Bill catches the incoming hammer by the handle and holds it there. Thor calls it back, Bill tries to resist. They discuss this, Bill is clearlky about to die from trying to resist Mjolinr heading back to Thor, but he's still trying. Thor says "I'll use another" and summons Stormbreaker. He then swings Stormbreaker down onto Mjolnir, still in Bill's hands, and smashes Stormbreaker to fragments that way. Still an impressive feat. It doesn't really answer why one Uru metal thing is tougher than the other Uru metal thing, outside of Mjolnir just being better made (or remade, or charged up with extra ThorOdinJuice, or whatever).

    As an aside, it seems as if the worthiness enchantment is gone from Mjolnir now. Loki lifted it, when Sif pranked Thor and sent the hammer to Jotunheim.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."
    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  15. #30
    Fantastic Member Tomzilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    416

    Default

    Shortly after shattering Stormbreaker, All-Father Thor was able to forcibly take back his portion of the Power Cosmic from Galactus. Is that something Odin could do?
    You're all cordially invited to join a sskreeeeongking GODZILLA TEA PARTY!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •