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  1. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    I started reading in the early 90s when most of that stuff was going on and it didn't stop me from reading comics further. I barely understood half of what was going on but I still enjoyed reading them to an extent.

    A crap comic is always going to be a crap comic no matter how you try to explain it.
    But how many kids are getting into American superhero comics nowadays? How many of them are reading Manga or YA graphic novels instead? How many are picking video games or Netflix to spend their time on over comics? How often do you even see kids in a comic book store in recent times?

  2. #347
    Mighty Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    But how many kids are getting into American superhero comics nowadays? How many of them are reading Manga or YA graphic novels instead? How many are picking video games or Netflix to spend their time on over comics? How often do you even see kids in a comic book store in recent times?
    There is unarguably a major disconnect between kids and mainstream U.S. comics...at least the stuff from Marvel and DC. While I don't hold it up as imperious market research, I've had the opportunity to ask plenty of manga loving kids why they love their favorite manga but won't touch Marvel and DC. It's the same medium, but the children clearly love one expression of it over the other. Being kids, they're often not the most analytic about things, and they often don't articulate themselves as detailed as some of us may like, but they essentially just like what they like.

    I imagine the problem with Marvel and DC where kids are concerned is "all of the above." Everything that you see people criticize them and the industry in general for is the reason why kids don't like them. Or, even worse than "don't like them." Kids are totally apathetic to Marvel and DC Comics outside of liking some of the characters' movies. The comics are usually not even on their radar, even if the kids know they exist.

  3. #348
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    There is unarguably a major disconnect between kids and mainstream U.S. comics...at least the stuff from Marvel and DC. While I don't hold it up as imperious market research, I've had the opportunity to ask plenty of manga loving kids why they love their favorite manga but won't touch Marvel and DC. It's the same medium, but the children clearly love one expression of it over the other. Being kids, they're often not the most analytic about things, and they often don't articulate themselves as detailed as some of us may like, but they essentially just like what they like.

    I imagine the problem with Marvel and DC where kids are concerned is "all of the above." Everything that you see people criticize them and the industry in general for is the reason why kids don't like them. Or, even worse than "don't like them." Kids are totally apathetic to Marvel and DC Comics outside of liking some of the characters' movies. The comics are usually not even on their radar, even if the kids know they exist.
    Kids love Superhero movies, TV shows, video games, and cartoons. Although they're probably easier to get into then the comics are short of tie-ins to the cartoons/movies.

  4. #349
    Spectacular Member ERON's Avatar
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    And how many kids who read manga and YA graphic novels, who also love superhero movies and games, would read American superhero comics if they were as accessible and affordable as manga, graphic novels, games, movies, etc? Whenever I've offered comics to the kids I work with, they love them and ask, "Why don't they make these anymore?"

  5. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Kids love Superhero movies, TV shows, video games, and cartoons.
    That might be, but the comics are something else entirely, and also the things that are currently in serious jeopardy. The video game, TV, and movie industries aren't going to bail the comics industry out. Though, amusingly, very recently, a Marvel writer asked Hollywood to do just that.

    If the industry survives what's going on (all it takes is enough of the retailers going under, and/or Diamond going under [which I would not say is unlikely for either] then Marvel, DC, and everyone else who uses the Direct Market are seriously effed), it's going to have to admit it made serious missteps and course correct them if it wants to survive. It can't really be argued that the industry has alienated and disinterested potential younger readers (and countless other people) so that it can go on appealing to older fans and collectors. Not doing much of anything to advance digital readership and even hindering it in crucial ways for the sake of comics shops is a really good example of that.

  6. #351
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    Nothing from Marvel on April 8, but DC will release Gotham High, some collections, a digital exclusive Teen Titans Go comic, and some old reprints digitally.
    https://www.newsarama.com/49728-dc-c...april-7-8.html
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  7. #352

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    But how many kids are getting into American superhero comics nowadays? How many of them are reading Manga or YA graphic novels instead? How many are picking video games or Netflix to spend their time on over comics? How often do you even see kids in a comic book store in recent times?
    I see a decent amount at mine, but mostly because mine makes an actual effort to attract them. It's well lit, open, has a specific section for comics targeted at their age group. I also see a decent amount going to the local large convention (Awesomecon) doing cosplay and stuff, but that convention also made an effort to create an entire kids area where they can draw their own comics, do challenges and things like that.

    Kids want to get into comics. The problem is that it's not made easy for them to get into them, and Marvel/DC are mostly targeting the pre-teen-and-older crowd and not looking for them. That's why I love stuff like (what used to be known as) Zoom and Ink. And some of those did crazy good numbers (the Raven one most notably). The audience is there.
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  8. #353
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Out of continuity stories for younger readers may work well. Not going to make lifetime fans, but maybe they don't need lifetime fans,
    But it's dc. Any comic from before the last whatever years is out of continuity! That's 80s superman comic I read as a kid and loved is out of continuity. Same with that 60s batman comic. Is that the first now dead batman in that comic or the current youger from another universe batman or did dc erase that from it's universe again. It's hard to tell. That black and white untold legends of batman comic trade I had as a kid is out of continuity. DC canon is a mess.

    Plus many people love the batman and jla comics based on the cartoons and they are out of continuity.



    Plus event after event that costs over $100 if you want all the books to that event or wait for the cheaper trade that will come in a few months and save money. Can't see kids spending that much for 2min of reading comics when manga and trades are far cheaper and more bang for your buck.

    And how many kids who read manga and YA graphic novels, who also love superhero movies and games, would read American superhero comics if they were as accessible and affordable as manga, graphic novels, games, movies, etc? Whenever I've offered comics to the kids I work with, they love them and ask, "Why don't they make these anymore?"

    As I have said I can't get my nephews to read a marvel or dc comic to save their life. They have a tub of marvel and dc toys, games, shirts, lego games and love the movies and cartoons but won't read the comics! They will read big nate, Naruto, bone, dogman, pokemon and even uncle scrooge!

    Did get my niece to read the raven ya trade however!
    Last edited by Gaastra; 04-06-2020 at 05:56 PM.

  9. #354
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    People have mentioned the Raven GN a lot - its full title is Teen Titans: Raven and it's supposed to be followed up, over time, with books starring other members of Teen Titans. Whether they will exist in a shared continuity and ever participate in any team-up books remains to be seen. The same author was supposed to write them, I think.

  10. #355
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    I think Star Trek got overexposed in the 90s and collapsed for a bit in the 2000s, its why it had to take a break for a while and slowly build itself back up.
    Yeah, but that's besides the point. But I know for me, Voyager was the end of it. Man, I don't get why Janeway is such a celebrated character. Worst captain ever. Greatly enjoying Discovery though, and can't wait to check out Picard.

    Sure, that could work, depending on how DC spends its resources, I have no problem with the ongoing universe per say, I just think focusing only that is putting your eggs all in one basket. The more self-contained YA graphic novels outsell Marvel and DC for a reason, IMO, I think self-contained YA novels hold more appeal to kids today than the 80-year-old universe would, IMO.
    I agree with the bolded. I think everyone agrees with that. And we've seen DC make an effort to branch out into the OGN and bookstore and kid markets, starting with the Earth-1 line going up to all the stuff out there today, so they agree with us too. It should've been done years ago, but it's happening now and from what I hear, most of their stuff outside the direct market is doing well.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    But how many kids are getting into American superhero comics nowadays? How many of them are reading Manga or YA graphic novels instead? How many are picking video games or Netflix to spend their time on over comics? How often do you even see kids in a comic book store in recent times?
    It's not a lack of interest in the properties, we know that. The superhero is more popular today than it has probably been since the 1940's. The problem is availability. Kids can't buy something they don't know exist, and the limited, isolated nature of the direct market means you're not going to find comics if you're not actively looking for them. And since so many people think comics stopped being made decades ago, parents aren't looking.

    But mentioning manga is a good example of why long continuity isn't necessarily a barrier. I got the Funimation app for my daughter, so we could watch MHA during quarantine. It looks like One Piece has over 900 episodes. Dragon Ball has I don't know how many, but there's been what, five different series? Kids get into those manga despite the long history. And yeah, manga's continuity runs smoother than comics' and you know you can just start at volume 1 (though with Dragon Ball you gotta know what series follows what series I guess). But it's really not that much of a barrier. Should comic continuity be handled better? Obviously. Is it a driving factor for the direct market's demise? No. The direct market is the driving factor for the direct market's demise.

    Continuity is no more messed up now than it was years ago when we started reading. It didn't stop us, and we also had movies and video games and other entertainment options. But if you want to sell a product, that product needs to be where your audience will find it. Comics haven't done that in decades, of course sales suck. Change the format and the marketing, make sure the stories will appeal to your new target demo, and I promise you sales will skyrocket. Those kids running around in Superman and Avengers t-shirts? They'll eat comics up, but they need to discover that comics exist first.
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  11. #356
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Yeah, but that's besides the point. But I know for me, Voyager was the end of it. Man, I don't get why Janeway is such a celebrated character. Worst captain ever. Greatly enjoying Discovery though, and can't wait to check out Picard.



    I agree with the bolded. I think everyone agrees with that. And we've seen DC make an effort to branch out into the OGN and bookstore and kid markets, starting with the Earth-1 line going up to all the stuff out there today, so they agree with us too. It should've been done years ago, but it's happening now and from what I hear, most of their stuff outside the direct market is doing well.



    It's not a lack of interest in the properties, we know that. The superhero is more popular today than it has probably been since the 1940's. The problem is availability. Kids can't buy something they don't know exist, and the limited, isolated nature of the direct market means you're not going to find comics if you're not actively looking for them. And since so many people think comics stopped being made decades ago, parents aren't looking.

    But mentioning manga is a good example of why long continuity isn't necessarily a barrier. I got the Funimation app for my daughter, so we could watch MHA during quarantine. It looks like One Piece has over 900 episodes. Dragon Ball has I don't know how many, but there's been what, five different series? Kids get into those manga despite the long history. And yeah, manga's continuity runs smoother than comics' and you know you can just start at volume 1 (though with Dragon Ball you gotta know what series follows what series I guess). But it's really not that much of a barrier. Should comic continuity be handled better? Obviously. Is it a driving factor for the direct market's demise? No. The direct market is the driving factor for the direct market's demise.

    Continuity is no more messed up now than it was years ago when we started reading. It didn't stop us, and we also had movies and video games and other entertainment options. But if you want to sell a product, that product needs to be where your audience will find it. Comics haven't done that in decades, of course sales suck. Change the format and the marketing, make sure the stories will appeal to your new target demo, and I promise you sales will skyrocket. Those kids running around in Superman and Avengers t-shirts? They'll eat comics up, but they need to discover that comics exist first.
    American comics need 4 things...

    1. Simplification: You shouldn't need to buy 4 different books to understand a story.
    2. Availability: They need to be somewhere that isn't out of the way to get to.
    3. Less of a focus on Superheroes: Superheroes get people in the door, but I feel a truly healthy medium has to have more then superheroes keeping it alive.
    4. Less of a focus on Marvel and DC: For better or worse Marvel and DC really aren't in the "new franchises" business any more. They are essentially just curators of old franchises propped up by mega corporations to keep old lucrative IPs from falling into the irrelevance.

  12. #357
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    An e-mail from my comic book store came yesterday. Some of it sounds like stuff we already heard.

    Some key items-

    "Publishers have adjusted some release schedules SUGGESTING a 2 week delay. Pull list will be updated once shipments are known."

    "there are some publishers planning to bypass diamond and get books printed."

    I wouldn't be shocked if we see some stuff pop or get announced at the end of April.


    Less of a focus on Marvel and DC:
    I can tell you that is already happening. The issue seems to be the ADULT buying the book for the kid is the issue. The kid wants the indy book but the parent looks DOWN on it. I know of a few creators who have had that issue.

    Aside from that the more variety other companies offer have taken a dent out DC & marvel. What they don't do someone else will. I have met too many who know Saga & Wicked + Divine and don't go to a comic book store.

  13. #358
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    Local Comic Stores (LCS's) have been on life support for years well before the virus, so I can completely see how this pandemic will cause many of them to go out of business entirely.

    I will completely admit to eschewing LCS's completely about 5 years ago. I got tired of dealing with their crap (won't go into detail here, since that's another thread) and it also wasn't convenient to be driving to & from the store 2-3 times a month. It's a lot easier & cost-effective to order the Collected Editions (CE's) I want online, and have them delivered directly to my door. If anything, I probably buy more CE's now than I did when I went to LCS because I'm saving money (by not having to pay full price) and it's a lot easier to get the books due to not having to go & pick them up. I don't collect floppies at all, and in fact haven't collected any modern comics since around 2014.

    I'm no economist, but I suspect that CE's can still exist and make money even without LCS to distribute them at all. Even now, I believe a lot of collectors are like me & order online exclusively. I.e., I can easily see paper CE's still being produced - but in much lower #'s.

    However, what probably would suffer (if all LCS closed) are floppies, since I don't know if you can order these online as readily, or even if you would want to (the concern would be that they would easily bend while being shipped, etc.)

    And, the big question here is this: Will CE's continue to be produced if floppies go away completely?! I've heard/read that the continued production of CE's is dependent on sales from floppies - not sure how true this is, however.

    And, if comics go 100% digital (for whatever reason), and there are no more paper copies of anything, I'm quitting the hobby cold-turkey. I have 0 interest in digital comics & will not buy or read these.
    Last edited by ROM Spaceknight; 04-06-2020 at 08:15 PM.

  14. #359
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    An e-mail from my comic book store came yesterday. Some of it sounds like stuff we already heard.

    Some key items-

    "Publishers have adjusted some release schedules SUGGESTING a 2 week delay. Pull list will be updated once shipments are known."

    "there are some publishers planning to bypass diamond and get books printed."

    I wouldn't be shocked if we see some stuff pop or get announced at the end of April.




    I can tell you that is already happening. The issue seems to be the ADULT buying the book for the kid is the issue. The kid wants the indy book but the parent looks DOWN on it. I know of a few creators who have had that issue.

    Aside from that the more variety other companies offer have taken a dent out DC & marvel. What they don't do someone else will. I have met too many who know Saga & Wicked + Divine and don't go to a comic book store.
    Yeah, I think April 30th/early May is when books are going to start coming out again, even if it's digital first. Too much money sitting on the table with those big summer events.

  15. #360
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    And a longer hiatus could put the smaller publishers out of business. Delaying longer than a month benefits nobody.
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