Coronavirus knocks out direct market - Diamond stops deliveries

[twiztor]

i really liked the "created for digital" Batman '66 comic. it was wonderful to read on my tablet. Reading the print comic later just felt...flat.

[Ascended]

i really liked the "created for digital" Batman '66 comic. it was wonderful to read on my tablet. Reading the print comic later just felt...flat.

I remember back in the day I really wanted to see a crossover between that book and New52 Vibe. Would've been hilarious, especially if the League (either the "proper" one or Johns' New52 JLA) were involved.

Honestly I think Vibe would've been a great way to tie the floppies into the digital books and increase exposure. The scheduling between a weekly digital release and Vibe's monthly might've been difficult to juggle, but it seemed a good opportunity to cross the bridge and expose fans of one format to product from the other.

[Artemisfanboy]

Over across at Marvel they're doing another round of pausing productions on titles.
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/marv...-work-for-now/
I'm not feeling very optimistic about that Mid-May date for things to resume that one store was told, between this and Diamond laying most of their purchasing department.

[Flash Gordon]

i really liked the "created for digital" Batman '66 comic. it was wonderful to read on my tablet. Reading the print comic later just felt...flat.

That book was gold. Jeff Parker rocks, man.

The Lord Death Man issue alone is seminal for me now.

[kjn]

Yeah, maybe you're right and I'm over-correcting on this.

Or the true digital comics will end up being non-convertible to print (or at least not easily convertible).

I don't know. But I think it's an dangerous preconception to have.

You're right that the content is adjusted, at least to a degree, but I'm thinking less about the constraints of the format (page dimensions, etc) and more....like the narrative itself, I guess? Sorry, still drinking my morning coffee so brain isn't brain-ing just yet. I feel like most of those digital first books, while the art layout was designed for a screen instead of a page and writers paced stories for cliffhangers in the proper places, were still written for us, and not the audience/s most likely to embrace digital.

DC's OGN and YA stuff seems to have adapted to their audience and format much more smoothly though. Things like that YA Raven book or Harley's Glass Ceiling (or is it Breaking Glass Ceilings?), from what I've seen, are really well designed to appeal to people outside the LCS in a way digital-first didn't manage.

Yeah, the changes in artwork are more apparent and easily visible, but I believe also easier to handle. The storytelling and pacing challenges are much more opaque, but arguably even more necessary. The editors play a key role here.

Also, I'm not sure the Ink and Zoom lines are really comparable. From a medium point of view they are working in an established format. What they are doing is more writing in a style that can appeal to a younger market, and without the baggage of being bound to the established continuity. But all it tells me is that DC's IPs have a young and different audience, if they manage to package it correctly.

But with digital comics the discoverability problem isn't solved yet, they need to get the grammar right, and they need to make the IPs interesting for a new crowd. That's a trifecta of issues, and one of them is largely out of DC's hands right now.

[Ascended]

Or the true digital comics will end up being non-convertible to print (or at least not easily convertible).

I don't know. But I think it's an dangerous preconception to have.

We're talking a relatively new and unknown format and product, any preconception is potentially dangerous. Thanks for reminding me of that.

But you can do thinks like embed hyperlinks into dialogue, coloring that's near impossible to pull off in print, unique layout designs.....in the same way a novel can do things no other format can, and movies, and print comics, digital also has its own unique qualities, and I think leaning into them while designing the story for digital audiences would be wise. This is outside my area of expertise, but that does fall within some pretty basic business logic. There's exceptions to every rule and business standard obviously, but I don't *think* this would be one of them.

Also, I'm not sure the Ink and Zoom lines are really comparable.

OGN's and the Ink/Zoom stuff has the advantage of walking a very well trod and proven path while digital is still largely a unknown, still-developing medium, but I think the basic approach to adapting is the same. Zoom/Ink wrote for their intended audience and a different page size for art. We have enough research to know who's reading digital, how, and where, and creators can adjust for that stuff the same way they adjust for OGN's. The path isn't as clearly defined with digital, but there's options publishers can explore.

DC isn't a company that tends to blaze new trails, but somebody has to step up here and DC got the same-day-digital and digital-firsts going so I feel like its kinda on them to keep pushing into this new territory. Digital didn't immediately take over the publishing world but as far as I know it hasn't proven to be unprofitable either.

But with digital comics the discoverability problem isn't solved yet, they need to get the grammar right, and they need to make the IPs interesting for a new crowd. That's a trifecta of issues, and one of them is largely out of DC's hands right now.

Eh, maybe it's because my studies were focused on marketing more than anything but I don't feel like the discoverability is a *huge* hurdle. I actually wrote a marketing plan for a hypothetical just like this in a class a while back, and there's plenty of ways to get the word out in a cost effective way. That plan was front loaded with a lot of early entry loss leaders, but when you're trying to break into a brand new market I don't think you can really afford to hedge your bets.

[C_Miller]

Also, I'm not sure the Ink and Zoom lines are really comparable. From a medium point of view they are working in an established format. What they are doing is more writing in a style that can appeal to a younger market, and without the baggage of being bound to the established continuity. But all it tells me is that DC's IPs have a young and different audience, if they manage to package it correctly.

But with digital comics the discoverability problem isn't solved yet, they need to get the grammar right, and they need to make the IPs interesting for a new crowd. That's a trifecta of issues, and one of them is largely out of DC's hands right now.

In my shop, the DC Zoom and Ink books are proving that the print medium isn't a dead format. They have slowed down a tad, but they sell so well. And more importantly for younger readers, schools are picking up on them. A couple of them have ended up in the School Library Journal (which actually has a graphic novel section, just usually not featuring DC or Marvel). They seem to be really great, though I acknowledge that they aren't written for me. That's kind of the paradox that the comic book industry faces. To actually grab so called new readers, big changes has to be made, changes that will likely alienate a lot of older readers. While, my comic buying will probably shift if those changes are made, I'd be relatively okay with it. There's so much stuff out there designed for me already that I'll never run out of things to read. But for everyone of me, there are two or three dozen that would not go quietly into that good night, if you know what I mean.

I don't envy DC and Marvel right now. This is a completely unforeseen circumstance, so I understand why they decided to just halt production. You're right. Discoverability is an issue that they have not figured out yet. The comic industry is built on the direct market for better or worse and a hasty change could collapse it for good. Because right now, I know about two thirds of my customers probably would never pick up a new comic book again if the switch was made to all digital or they would cull their list significantly.

I don't think every shop is the same, but I think every comic shop has a not insignificant number of customers who will not make the switch to digital. Part of the issue is that there is a major collector mentality. I know plenty of people get books out of obligation or because they want every appearance of a certain character. Things like that lose their luster when you're going from a physical copy that you own to a digital file that is only available on a specific site. And on top of that, you're already losing the people who double dip and pickup multiple covers. Even if they make the switch, you're only grabbing them for a one time purchase. So, if the publishers decided to switch full stop to digital without thinking about how they're going to replace their old readers with, it would have been a disaster. I sympathize with the digital crowd, but the biggest issue would have been, what you do with the fact that the digital releases and the physical releases are no longer on the same issue?

You either have to switch to digital entirely or deal with that question. It appears that the industry picked the third option, halt production. We'll see if that was the best decision. And who knows, those other two options still could be on the table, but I definitely understand why you don't want to make that decision over the course of two weeks.

[Jadeb]

I don’t understand why DC’s floppies targeting kids tend to be so obviously kiddy. Comics traditionally weren’t like that, even when kids were the predominant audience. And I, as a kid, would have hated that approach. It’s insulting to young readers.

I wonder if there’s a possibility of creating a new digital universe. Sort of like Ultimate Spider-Man, where the stories “count‘ and characters grow. Maybe it could be a new Earth created in the next print crisis, to get print readers interested. But shoot for a wider audience. Give characters their own titles, just like print, but package everything so it’s easy for new readers. And build content specifically for digital’s strengths. That way the print universe continues on for traditional fans while creating a new entry point to digital both for those folks and newcomers.

You could even do Earth-1/Earth-2 style crossovers in print to keep the digital product in front of those readers (and make it “matter”). That could be neat.

[superduperman]

Over across at Marvel they're doing another round of pausing productions on titles.
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/marv...-work-for-now/
I'm not feeling very optimistic about that Mid-May date for things to resume that one store was told, between this and Diamond laying most of their purchasing department.

One store versus everyone else in the industry kind of suggests that one store might be wrong. I haven't heard any other source confirming this.

[Lightning Rider]

Random thought, fusing digitial with some of those simple "motion comic" effects would enhance the experience for me exponentially. I wouldn't want it to hamper artists in any way, they should still have the same level of stylistic freedom, but it shouldn't be hard to accomodate simple action movements.

[skyvolt2000]

To actually grab so called new readers, big changes has to be made, changes that will likely alienate a lot of older readers.

Change has been in this industry for years.

Because older readers have to be pandered to.

Because Batman has ALWAYS been Bruce Wayne.
Flash has always been Barry Allen.
Green Lantern has ALWAYS been Hal Jordan.
Wonder Woman has ALWAYS been Diana Prince.
Justice League has ALWAYS been Manhunter, Aquaman, Superman, Batman, WW, Flash & Hal.
Teen Titans has ALWAYS been Dick, Wally, Roy, Garth & Donna.

We are going to pretend other folks have not worn those costumes or served on the League or Titans.
We are going to pretend Showcase nor Marvel Comics Present & other anthologies did not exist as the only place for many to appear in.
We are going to pretend that every series got a trade when for YEARS that was not the case.

Now all the sudden change is an issue.

Because how DARE a generation of kids like John Stewart over Hal.
Because how DARE books NOT starring Batman and entitlement friends are selling OUTSIDE the comic book store.
Because how DARE the tv side of DC can actually make characters like Cyborg INTERESTING.
Because how DARE the movie side of DC can make a billion dollars with Aquaman.

Change has been happening constantly.

If digital or OGN means folks like Raven and Cassandra Cain can get actually STORIES-so be it. I am tired of that floppy being used as a weapon against characters in getting stories told.
If digital or OGN means more TALENT coming to DC and characters like John Stewart or Jessica Cruz can get into the hands of writers who WANT to write about them instead of ones who don't care for them-so be it.

Let Batman and his entitlement friends have floppies. Let everyone else get the digital and OGNs.

The change does not have to be battle.

[Tzigone]

Teen Titans has ALWAYS been Dick, Wally, Roy, Garth & Donna.

That's not even remotely true in the fandom. At all. I've never seen anyone discount the New Teen Titans as Teen Titans. Ever. I'm sure it's happened, but it's absolutely a rarity.

Because how DARE a generation of kids like John Stewart over Hal.

That gereration of kids is grown and that is definitely not "now" - and changes were made to make comic John more like his cartoon counterpart for the fans that liked that version.

Let Batman and his entitlement friends have floppies. Let everyone else get the digital and OGNs.

What the hell does "entitlement friends" even mean?

We are going to pretend that every series got a trade when for YEARS that was not the case.

That's never been pretended.

We are going to pretend other folks have not worn those costumes or served on the League or Titans.

No, I acknolwedge others have worn the costumes and served on those teams. I'm perfectly willing that others buy those titles or watch the shows that feature other characters. But by the same token that you are not obligated to like Bruce as Batman or Diana as Wonder Womanl, I am not obligated to like others in those roles. If enough people are willing to spend money for it, those will win out and I'll quit following. And that's fine. What I don't get is the idea that people are somehow wrong for not buying the thing they don't like just because that thing is new. Worse yet, there's somehow something wrong with them offering feedback (or discussing among themselves) that they don't like a change? Why is is more morally or philosophically acceptable for new fans to have the fictional world changed to suit their wants than for old fans to have the fictional world changed/kept the same for their wants. Especially if new fans don't keep buying, even when the changes are made?

Now, a rotating audience and frequent change may well be a better move for DC, but I can see how fans who want things to be "way A" are any more entitled than fans who want things to be "way B." Or how people can be faulted for not buying what they don't like. How how complaining about things not being "your way" is more wrong from one set than from another.

[Tzigone]

I don’t understand why DC’s floppies targeting kids tend to be so obviously kiddy. Comics traditionally weren’t like that, even when kids were the predominant audience. And I, as a kid, would have hated that approach. It’s insulting to young readers.

Which titles do you mean? Also, when were you a kid?

I think there's a difference in the main line being kid (or all-ages) friendly and in having a few titles that are kid-friendly with a main line very much targeting older readers. One is a playground made for them. The other is the watered-down, tiny section of kiddy rides at the theme park while 80%+ of the space is really not designed for them at all. They aren't getting the "real" version that way v when the "real" version was made for them.

[Digifiend]

Random thought, fusing digitial with some of those simple "motion comic" effects would enhance the experience for me exponentially. I wouldn't want it to hamper artists in any way, they should still have the same level of stylistic freedom, but it shouldn't be hard to accomodate simple action movements.

It's been tried here in the UK. After the print version of the Dandy ended in 2012, publisher DC Thomson tried to do a digital version, including motion and audio on some strips. One story, Retro Active, was a superhero story, and featured scenes showing news broadcasts complete with scrolling ticker. Sadly, the paywall was broken (people had trouble registering and it turned out the content was visible without paying if you knew the urls) so it ended after six months and is no longer online (considering this was seven years ago now, I think they should now put the content on beano.com, the website of the still in print Beano comic).

[kjn]

But you can do thinks like embed hyperlinks into dialogue, coloring that's near impossible to pull off in print, unique layout designs.....in the same way a novel can do things no other format can, and movies, and print comics, digital also has its own unique qualities, and I think leaning into them while designing the story for digital audiences would be wise. This is outside my area of expertise, but that does fall within some pretty basic business logic. There's exceptions to every rule and business standard obviously, but I don't *think* this would be one of them.

Yes, all of those are possible. But are all of them desirable for readers and workable for creators?

And going from my interest in data formats, there are very real infrastructure problems to be solved before some of the possible benefits you point out would be achievable. The CB* format is extremely primitive; the Kindle format is proprietary to Amazon (which has its own set of issues); the ePub format isn't suited for comics and suffers from far too much complexity; PDF simply sucks for comics and also has its own complexity issues.

Entrenched data formats in wide use are extremely hard to move. PNG took 15 years to supplant GIF, and the rollout of good tools for an advanced e-comic format (both reading and creation) will be really slow.

Eh, maybe it's because my studies were focused on marketing more than anything but I don't feel like the discoverability is a *huge* hurdle. I actually wrote a marketing plan for a hypothetical just like this in a class a while back, and there's plenty of ways to get the word out in a cost effective way. That plan was front loaded with a lot of early entry loss leaders, but when you're trying to break into a brand new market I don't think you can really afford to hedge your bets.

I'm sure DC could manage some success using those strategies that you outline, but I'm thinking long-term here. Years, where today's young innocent faces will be tomorrow's clientele, to use Tom Lehrer's words, but you also need a constant stream of young innocent faces. With Marvel, the indie publishers, Scholastic, and the manga publishers joining the fray. Shouting louder will only for so long. Focusing on loss leaders can work in the short term, but if everyone uses it all the time you end up devaluing your own product.

And whatever you do, you don't want to get into Amazon's clutches. Going from Diamond to Amazon will be jumping from the frying pan into the fire.