View Poll Results: Stars! Give it Stars!

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  • Five stars: This is my kinda WW story!

    3 15.00%
  • Four stars: A nice diversion

    4 20.00%
  • Three stars: If I'd never read this, I wouldn't be missing anything

    4 20.00%
  • Two stars: Not the worst, but not acceptable, either

    3 15.00%
  • One star: UGH!

    6 30.00%
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  1. #31

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    /edited out/
    Last edited by Doctor Bifrost; 03-27-2020 at 01:46 AM.
    Doctor Bifrost

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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureWonder View Post
    LOL I knew that some people's main beef with the issue would include "agenda" in it. How quickly people forget that comics have been "pushing agendas" and tackling social issues since FOREVER.
    But of course, some people have a problem with this issue's LGBT-friendly story, so...of course they are going to say "stop pushing agendas, comic books"...
    Yes, comic writers have always subtlety used comics as a trojan horse to address social issues. But in today's comics the agenda is front and center and the story suffers as a result. Writers are clearly more focused on pushing said agendas than telling good, entertaining stories. That's the difference. Today's writers don't seem to understand how subtlety works, they just want to beat you over the head bluntly over and over with their virtue signaling.

    Here's the synopsis of this issue: Hetero women are latent lesbians and men are evil. The end.
    Last edited by Scarlet Spider-Man; 03-27-2020 at 07:39 AM.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Yes, comic books have always subtlety used comics as a trojan horse to address social issues. But in today's comics the agenda is front and center and the story suffers as a result.
    Comics have always been overt. 70s - very heavy handed. Captain American - not subtle. Superman tearing down slums to force better housing built - pretty obvious.

    I agree some stories come off like boring after-school-specials, but some of the old ones did, too. I think that entertainment should be the primary motive, with messaging secondary.

    I do think part of it age of the reader. As a kid, I liked Captain Planet. As an adult, I don't think I would. Kids can think "awesome" and sometimes "good cause" get entertainment out something while adults are more likely to feel like they are being preached to. Or, in a totally different way, as someone once said when talking about re-reading books they read as kid, kids can suck the sugar off a sugar-coated morality tale, and not notice the substance.

    EDIT: I also don't care for retconning characters' sexual orientations because it's just not consistent with who they were and the experiences they had (that we read their thought bubbles for, sometimes) in the past. I have trouble with a lot of different retcons that fundamentally change characters or how past events occurred, though. It can be a problem with reading comics. Not happy about changing the Barry/Wally relationship with COIE or making Alfred raise Bruce.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 03-27-2020 at 07:44 AM.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Comics have always been overt. 70s - very heavy handed. Captain American - not subtle. Superman tearing down slums to force better housing built - pretty obvious.

    I agree some stories come off like boring after-school-specials, but some of the old ones did, too. That entertainment should be the primary motive, with messaging secondary.

    I do think part of it age of the reader. As a kid, I liked Captain Planet. As an adult, I don't think I would. Kids can think "awesome" and sometimes "good cause" get entertainment out something while adults are more likely to feel like they are being preached too. Or, in a totally different way, as someone once said when talking about re-reading books they read as kid, kids can suck the sugar off a sugar-coated morality tale, and not notice the substance.
    Captain America was overt because his character was basically a biased representation made to unite America during a World War. But you know what? We aren't in a World War, and a LOT has changed over the past 80 years. Comic books are no longer the lone vehicle to address social issues with the rise of television and social media. Captain America himself has evolved into far more than just a political mouthpiece (until recently).

  5. #35
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    I liked this issue. I'll certainly agree that it winds up being a lot more slight than I was hoping for. Probably a result of Orlando's run curtailed to make way for the next creative team, but I still appreciate that he can work short like this and wrap it up. It feels slight but it doesn't feel like ... full of loose ends and dangling threads. Maxima shows up, she knows Wonder Woman, loosely, professionally. She needs help. There's a very gay, very Wonder Woman solution to a problem. Context clues tell us what Ultraa is all about, and presumably access or knowledge to continuity fills in the gaps for us. Primaa is introduced. Beyond that ... I'm still 50:50 very iffy on the Donna New 52 background but there is a part of me that appreciates that they "humanized" Diana with the whole Zeus bullshit story and then donated the "mythic origin" that makes her kind of "more than human" to Donna. Donna does at least deserve to be as legendary, down to her DNA. But yeah, I just liked that Donna goes home. To an apartment. And is modern. And is friends with Vixen because they work in the same industry. Feels like actual Donna, even allowing for the Snyderian Ultra-Crossover Badass Deathbringer nonsense because that's just super-hero par for the course.

    I liked the art direction on Almerac. It reminded me a smidge of Tamaran but that's okay. Because frankly I'd be giddy for Diana to hang out with Koriand'r on Tamaran, too. There's your freaking Justice League; Wonder Woman, Maxima, Starfire, Mera, Donna Troy, Vixen, Black Canary and Batwoman. SOLD. Anyway, I've liked the N52 Maxima art design all along because she's bad-ass and somewhat adorable.

    Beyond that the art direction in characterization was really appealing, as Gleb Melnikov really seems to fall into that like, almost Greg Capullo, Bogdanovic, Jorge Jimenez style. Very dynamic and willing to let things lean a little "cartooning" so that characters actually express action and emotion and don't look like stiff mannequins. Little moments like the long shot of Diana with a huge grin on her face as she's like "ooooh ... FORBIDDEN forest!?" was awesome. Of course she loves forbidden forests. She's a princess who kicks the crap out of the things that usually threaten princesses.

    And I've liked the Four Horsewomen build-up fine, although I do wish I hadn't been spoiled by solicits and could have just been pleasantly surprised as they ambled along. But even so! Nice to see them all.

    What else?

    Oh, notably, Classic Maxima ... Thirsty Soldier Maxima ... is probably incredibly characteristically and unsurprisingly part of the United Planets Superwatch in Morrison's Green Lantern presently. I mean it's an interstellar police team made up of big buff burly dudes who look like Superman. OF COURSE she's there.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by k. Jones View Post
    oh, notably, classic maxima ... Thirsty soldier maxima ... Is probably incredibly characteristically and unsurprisingly part of the united planets superwatch in morrison's green lantern presently. I mean it's an interstellar police team made up of big buff burly dudes who look like superman. Of course she's there.
    Ha! Love it!

  7. #37
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Looking forward to reading this issue. Dropped the book a while ago but I wanted to bomb in for Maxima. If more of Diana's supporting cast keep showing up (Donna, Artemis or Steve), Orlando may trick me into thinking he wants to write Wonder Woman and not God of War. :P

    To be honest, I still hold out hope that they retcon classic Maxima to be current Maxima's mother who feels Maxima (a title, not name) needs to breed better heirs and thus has a duty above her own desires. Much as she did when she chose a mate to have a daughter when Superman spurred her affections too many times. You'd basically be ripping off Brave by having the mother/daughter tension resolve with classic Max accepting current Max and perhaps breaking that tradition so her daughter could be happy.

    I dunno. Just feels like we could have both and stop Maxima from trying to seduce a married Superman in one fell swoop while telling a very similar story.
    Last edited by Robanker; 03-28-2020 at 12:59 AM.

  8. #38
    Incredible Member Joao's Avatar
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    I'm sorry to say this but I was really bored reading this. I think I'm just not well versed in this universe enough to care about Maxima. I'm not even particularly interested in the four horsewomen getting together. Orlando seems to be the kind of writer who digs deep into the continuity, and I simply don't have the knowledge (or energy) to follow this journey. And I don't think the writing is particularly good to make It feel like it's worth changing my mind.

  9. #39
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joao View Post
    I'm sorry to say this but I was really bored reading this. I think I'm just not well versed in this universe enough to care about Maxima. I'm not even particularly interested in the four horsewomen getting together. Orlando seems to be the kind of writer who digs deep into the continuity, and I simply don't have the knowledge (or energy) to follow this journey. And I don't think the writing is particularly good to make It feel like it's worth changing my mind.
    So far he really hasn't dug deep though. He just brings back things from the past that you'll get if you've read the old stories, but don't have to have genuine knowledge of to enjoy. It doesn't take a Wonder Woman Master Class to understand what a magic sphere is or who Genocide or Devastation were. Reading things at face value it's all pretty clear. The way continuity is at DC is right now we're flying blind anyway.

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    So far he really hasn't dug deep though. He just brings back things from the past that you'll get if you've read the old stories, but don't have to have genuine knowledge of to enjoy. It doesn't take a Wonder Woman Master Class to understand what a magic sphere is or who Genocide or Devastation were. Reading things at face value it's all pretty clear. The way continuity is at DC is right now we're flying blind anyway.
    I think Joao and you use "dig deep" in different ways. What I think he means, and what I think Orlando is also doing, is bringing back up lots of obscure or seldom used characters or items from previous Wonder Woman runs.

    What Orlando hasn't done, however, is really done anything with these characters or elements. They are referenced and seen, but aren't really examined or reimagined for the current era. In that sense he isn't digging deep.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    I'll give it 2.5 stars, or average (and I'm being somewhat generous).
    Last edited by Celgress; Yesterday at 01:18 PM.
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  12. #42
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I think Joao and you use "dig deep" in different ways. What I think he means, and what I think Orlando is also doing, is bringing back up lots of obscure or seldom used characters or items from previous Wonder Woman runs.

    What Orlando hasn't done, however, is really done anything with these characters or elements. They are referenced and seen, but aren't really examined or reimagined for the current era. In that sense he isn't digging deep.
    Yeah, that's what I said. You don't need prior knowledge to understand anything Orlando has done. It seems as if you want more examination, but that would only confuse unfamiliar people and annoy someone who doesn't have enough energy to care in the first place. While someone like myself on the other hand, that enjoys Wonder Woman lore and what Orlando is doing, isn't bored by it in the least. It's a plus not a minus.
    Last edited by Koriand'r; Yesterday at 08:02 PM.

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