"The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."
"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
"No justice, no peace."
Again, I'm not going to write essays about this.
I've told you why Kitty was brought to do that in Russia. She was against an army of people with power dampening tech threatening to kill or send children to gulags. You can be trained how much you want but if she went soft on them and they depowered herz then they'd all been dead.
She later maimed a Lady Deathstriker gurl i.e. a Cyborg; Bobby wasn't going to kill them, he made a whole speech about it; Havok was clearly about to kill them and was physically stopped while doing so. He was there because of that crazy talk behavior and because he was about to murder those guys, like Nightcrawler said during the meeting. The killing is illegal, that was the whole point of Havok being there and the speech made by Bobby.
Again, highly likely that Iceman wasn't reported to the Council by neither Emma or Bishop. Havok was surely reported by Nightcrawler. Kitty was allowed to use extreme force since it was an extreme situation (see X-Force or Orchis or Mystique being allowed to kill) so it wasn't a big deal to the eyes of the Council.
No inconsistency.
In the scan you posted she had to use the gun to get rid of the guys exactly because she doesn't have powers similar to Vision. She doesn't manipulate her own density, that's Ultimate Kitty Pryde. Please don't make me take the receipts on Kitty's powers and feats, we're not on Comicvine.
The depowering tech took down two Omega Level mutants. It was energy based and it's been shown to work without needing skin to skin contact (see Armor in New Mutants). Also, it's been shown to be dangerous enough to alarm the Council.
Fact is: she was not in an easy situation. Power dampening tech, teammates down, and she couldn't even use the gates to escape or ask for backup. She didn't even know if she could be resurrected had she been killed. Plus the freaking children.
You did say that vulnerability to man-made weaponry isn't god-material. Snowbird, whom you admit is a god, shows that this isn't the case.
Divine forebears also aren't a requisite for divinity. Loki, for example, is very much a god, but his parents are just Jotuns. Granted, Jotuns are mythological beings, but I'd certainly not call them gods.
I don't understand A) what's wrong with Storm as a goddess which has also been canonically stated on paper B) how being vulnerable to guns is a discriminant in deciding if one's a god or not.
Aren't fairies vulnerable to iron? And Asgardians were killed en masse by D-List villains during Siege.
Those are extenuating circumstances at best, she could have brought that up in front of the Council and be dismissed eventually as a result.
It doesn't justify her not being submitted to said judgment altogether.
Again, Havok too had extenuating circumstances and he was confronted by the Council regardless of those.
And I wasn't referring to Russia alone, Pryde has been maiming people in almost every mission with the Marauders.
He was going to kill them, Bishop chiming in prevented that.
Cyclops asked why his brother was part of that judgment and Jean's answer was that "he sent sapiens to the hospital with permanent injuries".
He almost killed them as a result, true, but that's not why he was being judged, otherwise X-Force would be also there, same with other characters in New Mutants who "almost killed" sapiens as well.
As I said, Bobby stopped only because of Bishop' intervention, but his initial intent was to kill those men.
That's no different from what Havok experienced, only Bishop didn't have to get physical to make Bobby stop, and even then, he decided to cripple those men anyway.
That's why he should have been part of that judgment, same with Pryde and same with Gorgon. That they would be cleared of all charges for the reasons you brought up is irrelevant regarding them being put to the scrutiny of judgment by the Council.
That's what favoritism - or double-standard - is, by the way.
And he was right to report him, that's not the contention point here - rather, the contention point lies with the ones who weren't reported to the Council when they should have been.
X-Force is a special combat team and even they have to answer for what they do on the field, that's not a compelling argument you are making you know.
And Mystique didn't kill anyone on her mission for the Council, nor maimed anyone either. I Don't know what incident you are referring to here.
And if the Council deemed Kitty maiming those sapiens "not a big deal", they could have brought her to judgment and tell her just that in said judgment.
That's the whole point of my remark.
Of course, that would make the situation with Havok even more absurd, since they are reproaching him just that as well, but I digress.
There is, you just Don't want to acknowledge it.
Last edited by People Of The Earth; 03-30-2020 at 07:06 AM.
"The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."
"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
"No justice, no peace."
That's not double standard, that's Emma being Emma. And that's why she's fun! She's shady. Also another reason why this new era is fun, because they're not all goodie good but they're doing shady things which are required to build a nation and save a species. Emma being shady about the Bobby situation is not only consistent with Emma's characterization, but discounts the fact that the Council is being written inconsistently because they likely didn't know about it.
Kitty is another situation that you don't want to acknowledge but it is what is, and are you really going to expect the Council to punish Gorgon after they sent him as a body guard exactly to do what he did there? Against an armed group of men who where sent there to kill Xavier but keep in mind, the X-Men are the bad guys here!
Havok was there because he tried to kill those men and he had to be stopped by Wolverine. They're putting a lot of stress in the fact that they cannot kill humans. Gorgon and Kitty didn't, and Bobby stopped as soon as Bishop called his name, he didn't have to be forced to stop and probably no one reported that to the Council, while Havok made a big scene in front of Kurt and Logan. Here we are, consistency!
But I'm going to disengage now.
I also said it wasn't the only thing tied to godhood, gods are able to revive themselves and/or transcend death, which is Snowbirds case, and which is also the case of the asgardians.
That's not true with Storm.
But you are right, if Snowbird had the same limitations than her, I would be questionning her status as well, it's just not the case though.
Loki's case is debatable, true, but even as a "simple" Jotun, he's much closer to that divine status than Storm is.
"The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."
"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
"No justice, no peace."
That's exactly what double standard is.
Kitty is her friend, and she's useful to her on the council, that's why she protected her.
When she asked for Jumbo Carnation to jump the line with the RP, that too was favoritism from her part.
I'm sure you are familiar with the definition.
You can be fine with Emma showing favoritism to her friends or the QC having a double-standard regarding who gets on the judgment roll and who doesn't, that's entirely within your right.
How you feel about it isn't what I'm discussing here, the act itself is, and Emma being a Councilwoman the QC bears responsibility for what she does with the power that position offers to her.
That's how governments work.
Emma's characterization isn't being discussed here either.
Which is what favoritism is (Emma protecting her friends from judgment), and why it is a double standard (regarding those other characters who ARE going through said judgment, them).
Oh I did, several times now.
Again, she should have been on that judgment roll, even if it was to be cleared from all charges for the Reason you have cited.
This is the part where people decide to not read the content of the posts they are answering to…
So, if you had actually read said content of my post, you'd know I Don't expect the Council to "punish" Gorgon as you put it.
I expect the Council to "judge" Gorgon because of what he did, and eventually clear him of all charges because of the circumstances you cited.
Same with Pryde.
Same with Drake.
That's called having a fair, functionnal justice system, not a cherry-picking/double-standardized mess that pass for one.
No one respects two-speed justice systems for a Reason, that's because they're unfair and hypocritical in nature.
He was there because he crippled those men.
Them almost dying isn't helping his case that's for sure, but that's not the Reason why he's here.
Again, a group of mutants almost killed sapiens over in New Mutants #3 or 4 iirc, you didn't see them in that room of judgment though and that's because "almost Killing" sapiens isn't a criteria on its own to warrant judgment.
I'd say it's more an aggravating factor than a deciding one in itself.
I appreciate you finally acknowledging Bobby wanted to kill those men btw.
Bishop stopping him verbally instead of physically Doesn't change his intention to kill them in the first place, the way Bishop did it is irrelevant regarding that.
Drake was freezing those men to death before Bishop's intervention.
Which is wrong for the Reasons I explained above.
Maybe I'm wrong and you Don't know what favoritism and double standard mean, but I think you do, you just like Emma and those characters on the QC too much to acknowledge there's anything wrong with them indulging in those practices.
We could debate on the merits of favoritism in a new society like Krakoa, but that'd be digressing.
"The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."
"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
"No justice, no peace."
Gorgon, Iceman and Kitty are precise. Yeah, they did a lot of damage to that people but they know perfectly when to stop.
Havok at that time did not know when to stop. He was out of his mind.
“Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe
THIS. The law is do not murder. That is pretty clear. Havok was about to kill that guy and would have had he not been stopped. We can discuss the ethics behind Bobby and Kitty maiming some humans but they didnt try to kill them. Thats a big important difference that people either seem to miss or ignore. Now theres an argument that what Alex did was self defense bc his adversaries were egging the guy to kill him after nearly blowing him up with a rocket. It definitely wasnt a simple black/white situation. Ditto with Scalphunter. I think the QC need to update their laws especially where it pertains to self defense bc if someone is trying to kill you then you should be able to defend yourself even if that means killing them
Last edited by Havok83; 03-30-2020 at 11:34 AM.
I think people are missing the deal with Scalphunter taking the rap. He hates the morlocks and defends himself from them, but he hates authority more. He’s not a grass.