X-Men / Fantastic Four #3 Review with *SPOILERS*

[Iron Maiden]

Actually, sales are to stores and they're ordered well in advance. The poor quality of the story and lack of relevance to the X-Men won't impact sales we see for any of the four issues.

Not necessarily. Stores have enough time to adjust their order qty after seeing how much interest there is in the first issue. You can find many examples of a new launch of a title that hits big and then makes a dramatic drop fairly quickly The figures for issue #4 can tell the story.

[Lucyinthesky]

And then as Doom points out, they are all trespassing on Latverian territory. I don't know if Doom conjured up this place or it is one of those islands created by volcanic activity. From the map it appears to be in international waters so I guess he has the right to claim it.

In their defense they kind of fell from the sky on it, they didn´t even know he had an island so close to Krakoa and last they knew Laveria was on Europe so I give them a pass, Victor should too

I do agree with the X-Men being used in a manner that really isn't necessary. I get that Zdarsky is giving some homages to the earlier Fantastic Four / X-Men mini. Even that one had a fight between the X-Men and the FF but it got resolved pretty quickly. Kitty was around the same age Franklin is now and they both have an issue with their powers. etc. Franklin has been coming across as too juvenile which is a shame. IMO he's not been done very well ever since he returned from the Secret Wars rebuilding aftermath. T

Yes I miss adult Franklin so much, just to see him interact a little with teenager Franklin to give him some life lessons or with Doom or with the X-men now that Hickman is writting them would be very nice imo

[Chris0013]

In their defense they kind of fell from the sky on it, they didn´t even know he had an island so close to Krakoa and last they knew Laveria was on Europe so I give them a pass, Victor should too

Yeah...I see that happening.....

[Ferro]

only f4 stans enjoy this tile, I dont see many x-fans buying the fourth since it got progressivly more blatant how unnecessary the x-men are in this mini, besides to bash the new status quo and give writer made fuel agaist it.

[Lucyinthesky]

Yeah...I see that happening.....

Well I tried

[Coatl]

Can’t say I disagree with you here. Sue does seem to see the X-Nation as arrogant and pushy, but I feel the X-Nation is just being assertive and confident. I think it’s a mistake to see the mutants as neglecting their responsibilities as superheroes, when the Blond, blue-eyed, FF got a cushy ride through life, with no Sentinels chasing them down every 6 months.

Well matter of perspective of course, as I have been pretty clear about I not only see them as "arrogant and pushy", but as a whole racist cult talking who got their "precious" nation status by bribe, bullying or direct brainwashing politicians of other nations in comply their wishes and kept trying to grant immunity to known killers

But is also a double standard dismissing Sue opinions because she is blond and blue eyed when a) her life wasn't easy at all and b) Emma is also there, you know, the blonde blue eyed RICH woman who most of her live acted as a manipulative, spoiled, rich, bully; and C) many members of the mutandoom are already wealthy themselves, many white and even more handsome. Damn Xavier himself is a white rich MEN who for a long time pretended to be human to have a easier life, while letting teens handle dangerous missions while he was safe on his mansion.

I have to add that my favorites moment in the issue were Doom pointing on how hypocrite they were trying to force their rules when they considered themselves above the human rules.

Doom pointing the irony on then wanting to judge the F4 for entering Krakoa while them are also trespassing, and performing attacks in his land, the irony of them being supremacist and considering themselves superior for something that has no personal merit (double for those who used to combat the racism when they were the affected but now goes along with it) and finally even when is not directly pointed, is rich seeing how when allowed to enter a independent nation under certain rules, they wasted no time on violate the agreement who previously accepted, attacked people and even maybe killed a citizen, instead of follow the instructions (excusing themselves in that they were looking for their people and Doom isn't trustworthy) but got ballistic when something else looking for a member of his family entered into their nation to verify because they didn't just trust their word. The double standard and perceived superiority is rich. And Doom being the one who pointed it has no price.

Of course he will surely had second intentions of will try to take advantage of the situation, but the point was made and was made pretty well.

[Ferro]

the poor nations being bullied, poor things that werent already funding orchis before accepting krakoa as a nation, can't you think of poor russia and their sentinels.
and wow selling a product to get something in return, no other poor nation ever does that, not like x-men 4 lays out the whats and why's

[Lucyinthesky]

I just think thigs are a lot more complicated than that simply: the X-men have become evil.







I agree the X-men didn´t have any need to invite other super villains on Krakoa, they after all managed Utopia quite well until the AvX crossovoer but the concept is interesting still, to get them close enough to see if they are up to something but also to know if at least some of them would like to make a change in their lives.

This is typical of Hickman, takes something of a franchise and reproduces it x 100. Since the first time the X-men accepted Rogue, Logan, later Magneto and also tried to help Sabretooth, this always has been part of their team dynamics

I do disagree with part of the characterization Hickman has been giving them and I am sure he´s leading to something dark growing inside Krakoa but the positive side of it is also quite interesting and allows for situations and stories that would not exist otherwise, all this without the X-men leaving behind their responsibilities as super heros.

[jackolover]

Well matter of perspective of course, as I have been pretty clear about I not only see them as "arrogant and pushy", but as a whole racist cult talking who got their "precious" nation status by bribe, bullying or direct brainwashing politicians of other nations in comply their wishes and kept trying to grant immunity to known killers

But is also a double standard dismissing Sue opinions because she is blond and blue eyed when a) her life wasn't easy at all and b) Emma is also there, you know, the blonde blue eyed RICH woman who most of her live acted as a manipulative, spoiled, rich, bully; and C) many members of the mutandoom are already wealthy themselves, many white and even more handsome. Damn Xavier himself is a white rich MEN who for a long time pretended to be human to have a easier life, while letting teens handle dangerous missions while he was safe on his mansion.

I have to add that my favorites moment in the issue were Doom pointing on how hypocrite they were trying to force their rules when they considered themselves above the human rules.

Doom pointing the irony on then wanting to judge the F4 for entering Krakoa while them are also trespassing, and performing attacks in his land, the irony of them being supremacist and considering themselves superior for something that has no personal merit (double for those who used to combat the racism when they were the affected but now goes along with it) and finally even when is not directly pointed, is rich seeing how when allowed to enter a independent nation under certain rules, they wasted no time on violate the agreement who previously accepted, attacked people and even maybe killed a citizen, instead of follow the instructions (excusing themselves in that they were looking for their people and Doom isn't trustworthy) but got ballistic when something else looking for a member of his family entered into their nation to verify because they didn't just trust their word. The double standard and perceived superiority is rich. And Doom being the one who pointed it has no price.

Of course he will surely had second intentions of will try to take advantage of the situation, but the point was made and was made pretty well.

I can understand blond white characters had it hard in their history, where the atypical convenient looking heroes suffered for their mission. But that’s not the point I’m making here, that blond whites don’t get it hard. I’m saying it’s been about time the mutants were given the opportunity to be arrogant and pushy for a change, because the human race never allowed mutants to be any more than second classs humans. Good. Let mutants be forceful. I dont think people like the FF have the right to lambast mutants for asserting themselves this one time mutants gained the right to.

I like this conversation between the FF and mutants. I think the mutants should push back when the FF make derogatory remarks at mutants not being superheroes. I think that conversation should take place a lot more, and not hide that tension behind their respective genres. I think the FF should be called out for their false importance, considering they did nothing to support mutants when the mutants were under oppression in the world. What did Captain America say in AvX? “We didn’t interfere with your business”. Does mutant business include continuous persecution by humans? I think the FF think so. So do the Avengers.

[PlatinumThorns]

Reminder than the X-Men don't really care about the planet or people living on it.

[Ferro]

Reminder than the X-Men don't really care about the planet or people living on it.

And we stan a group reflecting the energy they kept recieving for years.
and that line literally states two things: the normal world doesnt want to accept wakanda or krakoa and the mess is of their own creation, why should either fix a problem they didnt create?

[LordUltimus]

And we stan a group reflecting the energy they kept recieving for years.
and that line literally states two things: the normal world doesnt want to accept wakanda or krakoa and the mess is of their own creation, why should either fix a problem they didnt create?

Homeless guy starving to death down the street? Meh, not my problem.

[Coatl]

the poor nations being bullied, poor things that werent already funding orchis before accepting krakoa as a nation, can't you think of poor russia and their sentinels.
and wow selling a product to get something in return, no other poor nation ever does that, not like x-men 4 lays out the whats and why's

Yes POOR NATIONS, they were FORCED to do something they didn't agree and when tried to redfuse were blatantly BRAINWASHED into accept, removing any possibility to refuse. The status of Nation who the mutants so proudly try to explode in nothing but the demonstration of how corrupt the mutants can be, there wasn't anything democratic and there is not respect earned, just plan bullying because, hell we have telephats and you are just human! you don't have right to refuse!

That should be scary as hell by any human nation, by any human actually.

I just think thigs are a lot more complicated than that simply: the X-men have become evil.

I don't even think that they are evil, what I'm saying is that they are starting to go in a dark path that some fans try to cheer as something positive, when in reality is pretty dark, and a bit sad. They are not trying to be evil but they are allowing pretty racist behaviour who if not stopped on time would lead to major issues

I agree the X-men didn´t have any need to invite other super villains on Krakoa, they after all managed Utopia quite well until the AvX crossovoer but the concept is interesting

Not only they didn't need them, many of them were actually dead and were bring back just to populate Krakoa. Yes the X-men are not evil, but some of their villains certainly are, and when I'm the first fan of redemption histories, no one of those villains wanted or asked for it (a crucial factor in a redemption tale), they are still the same, just accepted take part of Krakoa, they are even put in leading positions and get a chance to extend their way of thinking in other mutants. Yes X-men are famous for second chances and redemptions but those has to be wanted and earned and not only by "mutant standats"[/QUOTE]

I do disagree with part of the characterization Hickman has been giving them and I am sure he´s leading to something dark growing inside Krakoa but the positive side of it is also quite interesting and allows for situations and stories that would not exist otherwise, all this without the X-men leaving behind their responsibilities as super heros.

In this I agree, yes this open a new world of adventures and maybe I will enjoy some of them, but that doesn't stop me of notice and point how morally dubious they have become.

I’m saying it’s been about time the mutants were given the opportunity to be arrogant and pushy for a change, because the human race never allowed mutants to be any more than second classs humans. Good. Let mutants be forceful. I don't think people like the FF have the right to lambast mutants for asserting themselves this one time mutants gained the right to.

Second class? When is true that some mutants were discriminated for their aspect is also true that a good amount of them were rich and powerful people who abused their powers to get unjust advantage over common people. Dam I also mentioned people who had it much easier that humans, compare the Hellfire Club with characters as Daredevil, Spiderman or Hulk and tell me who had it easier.

Any way, excusing a bully to abuse others just with the argument that he was bullied himself is a poor excuse, who just proves how nobody has any interest on stopping the violence cycle. Right now mutants are just proving that all those people who attacked them had good reasons to be aggressive against creatures who would do the same given the chance, making all them equal. No, in my book being abused doesn't grant you a free pass to become ans a$hole to others.

[Alan2099]

I’m saying it’s been about time the mutants were given the opportunity to be arrogant and pushy for a change, because the human race never allowed mutants to be any more than second classs humans.

Funny, I seem to remember human loving mutants (or at least some mutants) back in the 90s X-Factor and X-Statix eras. It's canon in the Marvel universe that Weird Al has made a song about Multiple Man.

[Ferro]

Homeless guy starving to death down the street? Meh, not my problem.

the same as every other team, except the x-men ARE helping homeless people have a place to stay and be safe, like the morlocks, considerably more than most other teams do but aparently since they are mutants it doesnt count.
for each x-men there are a thousand or so mutants with pretty much nothing, put either in sumps like x-town or forced into hiding, then there's all the experimentation, being turned into drugs, sentinels, religious zealots.
But those don't count