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  1. #1
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Default X-Men / Fantastic Four #3 Review with *SPOILERS*

    "3 - To The Victor"

    Misunderstanding always seem to be the root cause of conflicts in the superhero community and that certainly has been the case in this series until the third issue. IMO it has taken too long to get to this point and I am disappointed in how it has been handled so far. There is fault on both sides and at this point and a bit tedious to rehash too much. The story opens with the pursuit of the FF by a team of X-Men consisting of Professor X, Scott, Emma Frost, Magneto and the Beast. The FF are able to trace the location of Franklin and Val so when the X-Team downs the FF's ship everyone winds up on the not so creatively named Doom Island. IMO maybe New Latveria would have been better for this island somewhere in the South Pacific. Zdarsky includes map/data sheet of the island and it's location, a nod to the graphics in Hickman's X-titles.

    Just as Emma threatens to put the FF on trial for espionage and illegal entry back on Krakoa Doom interrupts the scene to remind that they are now illegally on Latverian soil. Now both teams realize that Doom has both the missing X-Men along with Franklin and Valeria. There is some disagreement among the X-Men about Kate (I still think of her as Kitty) agreeing to Doom's terms. Franklin's decision to submit to Doom's experiment does not sit well with Reed and Sue either. But it is agreed that they will allow Doom to proceed while Reed and Hank oversee the process to prevent Doom trying anything nefarious. Meanwhile Susan agrees to join Emma, Magneto and Wolverine in a search for the mutant signatures they picked up on the island. They do find 2 Latverian children hiding in a cottage but a squad of Doombots breaks down the walls and during the fight Wolverine runs his claws through one of them. But it starts to bleed....Wolverine has killed a Latverian.

    I have mixed feelings about this issue, along with the project as a whole. I enjoyed Chip Zdarsky's Marvel Two in One series featuring Ben, Johnny and Doom along with Dr. Rachna Koul. Together they briefly became a Fantastic Four in spirit if not in name. Rachna is also mentioned here in regards to her research on what she named "godpower", something which Doom has also been researching and dubs them "Von Doom particles" I liked this callback to that series because she was powering up other superhumans with depleted powers as I recall she was quite mercenary about it and charged a steep fee. It's not clear whether Doom was already on a parallel path of research or not on the same field. But the idea he expressed here makes sense to explain how a human could wield such vast amounts of energy.

    But I have to repeat my complaint that it's not a terribly original plot to have the heroes in conflict over a misunderstanding. Undoubtedly Doom is "up to something"...he didn't build those Doom sentinels just as a hobby. The fourth issue is going to have a lot of territory to cover and I have my doubts that it will come to a conclusion that will be satisfying to all the fans of the various characters. As to the art, it looks not to be up to the past efforts of the Dodson's. Valeria in particular is drawn very inconsistently.. at times looking like a cute preteen, then as some kind of goofy looking elf girl. I do think Doom so far has come off the best in this series and throws shade at Charles, Reed and Magneto. I was interested to see how that meeting would come off and everyone always thinks that Doom/metal = easy win for Magneto. But he proves to be prepared for that eventuality. I liked this exchange with Charles where Doom rejects the Krakoan diplomatic overtures that dangle the promise their plants in exchange for diplomatic immunity. Both Wakanda and Latveria have rejected this offer and probably with good reason. We'll have to see how that play plays out as Hickman's story unfolds I guess.



  2. #2
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I miss the time when Charles Xavier needn't to be that castigated because for his faults, he wasn't that smug…

  3. #3
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I miss the time when Charles Xavier needn't to be that castigated because for his faults, he wasn't that smug…
    Yeah, he was a lot less shady in those Claremont/Byrne, Claremont/Cockrum days.

  4. #4
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Imagine getting an ethics lesson from Doctor Doom. On superiority no less.

  5. #5
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    I know Franklin is supposed to be tis whiny, moody teenager, but this is the only gif that I feel is appropriate for him. I know he's stupid, but he's never been this stupid in the past.


    As for the artwork, I'm not a fan. I don't know why, but Valeria looks off for some reason. Sometimes, she looks way younger than what she actually is. Perhaps it's because the main book always draws her like a shrunken Sue with bangs, but I'm not feeling the art.

    Doom, however, he was drawn spectacularly. I love Zydarsky's Doom because he feels grand and also is not a colossal idiot like Slott's Doom. At least this Doom has the decency to use a false flag operation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Val really looks like someone shaded her wrong.
    Last edited by U.N. Owen; 03-25-2020 at 01:56 PM.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Abe's Avatar
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    Delightful!
    - To Tammy and the Blue Rose !

  7. #7
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    Imagine getting an ethics lesson from Doctor Doom. On superiority no less.
    Doom just doesn't like anybody claiming to be better than him. It's not morality, it's pride.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    "3 - To The Victor"

    Misunderstanding always seem to be the root cause of conflicts in the superhero community and that certainly has been the case in this series until the third issue. IMO it has taken too long to get to this point and I am disappointed in how it has been handled so far. There is fault on both sides and at this point and a bit tedious to rehash too much. The story opens with the pursuit of the FF by a team of X-Men consisting of Professor X, Scott, Emma Frost, Magneto and the Beast. The FF are able to trace the location of Franklin and Val so when the X-Team downs the FF's ship everyone winds up on the not so creatively named Doom Island. IMO maybe New Latveria would have been better for this island somewhere in the South Pacific. Zdarsky includes map/data sheet of the island and it's location, a nod to the graphics in Hickman's X-titles.

    Just as Emma threatens to put the FF on trial for espionage and illegal entry back on Krakoa Doom interrupts the scene to remind that they are now illegally on Latverian soil. Now both teams realize that Doom has both the missing X-Men along with Franklin and Valeria. There is some disagreement among the X-Men about Kate (I still think of her as Kitty) agreeing to Doom's terms. Franklin's decision to submit to Doom's experiment does not sit well with Reed and Sue either. But tt is agreed that they will allow Doom to proceed while Reed and Hank oversee the process to prevent Doom trying anything nefarious. Meanwhile Susan agrees to join Emma, Magneto and Wolverine in a search for the mutant signatures they picked up on the island. They do find 2 Latverian children hiding in a cottage but a squad of Doombots breaks down the walls and during the fight Wolverine runs his claws through one of them. But it starts to bleed....Wolverine has killed a Latverian.

    I have mixed feelings about this issue, along with the project as a whole. I enjoyed Chip Zdarsky's Marvel Two in One series features Ben, Johnny and Doom along with Dr. Rachna Koul. Together they briefly became a Fantastic Four in spirit if not in name. Rachna is also mentioned here in regards to her research on what she named "godpower", something which Doom has also been research and dubs them "Von Doom particles" I liked this callback to that series because she was powering up other superhumans with depleted powers as I recall she was quite mercenary about it charged a steep fee. It's not clear whether Doom was already on a parallel path of research or not on the same field. But the idea he expressed here makes sense to explain how a human could wield such vast amounts of energy.

    But I have to repeat my complaint that it's not a terribly original plot to have the heroes in conflict over a misunderstanding. Undoubtedly Doom is "up to something"...he didn't build those Doom sentinels just as a hobby. The fourth issue is going to have a lot of territory to cover and I have my doubts that it will come to a conclusion that will be satisfying to all the fans of the various characters. As to the art, it looks not to be up to the past efforts of the Dodson's. Valeria in particular is drawn very inconsistently.. at times looking like a cute preteen, then as some kind of goofy looking elf girl. I do think Doom so far has come off the best in this series and throws shade at Charles, Reed and Magneto. I was interested to see how that meeting would come off and everyone always thinks that Doom/metal = easy win for Magneto. But he proves to be prepared for that eventuality. I liked this exchange with Charles where Doom rejects the Krakoan diplomatic overtures that dangle the promise their plants in exchange for diplomatic immunity. Both Wakanda and Latveria have rejected this offer and probably with good reason. We'll have to see how that play plays out as Hickman's story unfolds I guess.


    Shit like this is why I love Doom.

  9. #9
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    Let's have a show of hands for all the people who believed Doom would be 100% upfront about this.

    No? Good.

    Seriously, a bigger twist would be if Doom was being 100% upfront and honest about this and then Franklin took over as the villain for the rest of the storyline.

  10. #10
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I liked this issue better than the first 2 but itīs not much better the story is predictable and the X-men and now the FF4 keep making mistakes that could be easily avoided but then there would not be a story to tell and thatīs a bad signal imo, Chip could use this different clash of personalities to at least make an exploration on the pov of each character instead they keep randomly fighthing each other while keeping a proud posture and Logan should have been able to smell that.

    I agree Dr Doom is the best character despicted here but this also means the rest of the characters have been written with a superficial characterization. Zdarsky is a better writer than this but his heart doesnīt seem to be on this imo.

    On the positive side I hope Zdarsky gets to explore this concept of the God power as it can explain a lot of things and getting to explain it would help this crossover to end in a good note by adding more to the marvel lore that can be used by future writers.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 03-25-2020 at 04:11 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    "I save people because it's right you should try it sometime."
    aparently sue storm as the karen she is. forgot all the years mutants and the x-men spent helping people at their own personal expense, but miss baxter building cant come down that pedestal. Terrible series so far unless you're a fantastic four fan

  12. #12
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    Doom just doesn't like anybody claiming to be better than him. It's not morality, it's pride.
    He may be hiding his own selfish pride behind his argument, but he's also not wrong. They do call themselves "homo superior" after all.

  13. #13
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    "I save people because it's right you should try it sometime."
    aparently sue storm as the karen she is. forgot all the years mutants and the x-men spent helping people at their own personal expense, but miss baxter building cant come down that pedestal. Terrible series so far unless you're a fantastic four fan
    Yes I was like well, he kind of tried his best to protect humans and mutants during the whole Uncanny and X-men blue saga after Scott, Logan and Xavier got killed but we canīt expect Susan to know that I guess.

    Still If Chip only wanted to have Magneto there to get punched, talked down to and to be generally unpleasant I wish he had not used him, at least he tried to apologize to Susan on this issue, lest see if he can do something useful before the crossover ends.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    "I save people because it's right you should try it sometime."
    aparently sue storm as the karen she is. forgot all the years mutants and the x-men spent helping people at their own personal expense, but miss baxter building cant come down that pedestal. Terrible series so far unless you're a fantastic four fan
    She's talking to the man who is literally always putting himself on a pedestal. He literally started this series with talking about how superior he is. Are we just meant to forget that Magneto has been a villain for decades and his permanent change to anti-hero was recent? She was specifically talking to Mags in that convo, because that's who she's beefing in this series.

    I'm still shocked no one in the comic has brought up the big Onslaught elephant in the room.
    Get the INVISIBLE WOMAN mini OUT NOW!


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  15. #15
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    She's talking to the man who is literally always putting himself on a pedestal. He literally started this series with talking about how superior he is. Are we just meant to forget that Magneto has been a villain for decades and his permanent change to anti-hero was recent? She was specifically talking to Mags in that convo, because that's who she's beefing in this series.

    I'm still shocked no one in the comic has brought up the big Onslaught elephant in the room.
    Because Onslaught was an actual accident born after Charles shut down Magnetoīs mind during the fatal attractions crossover, so Magneto canīt be blamed for that honestly, he was literally in a coma during that whole event and only Joseph, his clone, was around to fight Onslaught and Charles released that entity under a moment of pure anger it wasnīt as if he made him on purpose.

    But now that we are talking of Onslaught, Susan has yet to give thanks to the X-men for taking care of Franklin while Reed and her where send to another dimension to save them from Onslaught.

    Yes Magneto has been pompus, arrogant and unpleasant on this one comic but he has literaly 20 years, in the real wold, since the end of HoM to now where he has been an ally of the X-men and indeed helped them save the world a couple of times and not just mutants, belive it or not thatīs a recent development since Hickman began his run on the X-men. On the other hand I donīt blame Sue for thinking bad of him because she barely knows anything about him at all I just wish Chip at least wrote him in a better way so he was actually an useful character in the story.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 03-25-2020 at 04:30 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

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