X-Men / Fantastic Four #3 Review with *SPOILERS*

[Steel Inquisitor]

It’s posturing. Sue is disturbed by the overly confronting pro-X blathering, so she vents. I think Magneto has shown enough he is a compassionate superhero.

Um, no, he hasn't. These days Magneto lets others do the dirty work.

Can’t say I disagree with you here. Sue does seem to see the X-Nation as arrogant and pushy, but I feel the X-Nation is just being assertive and confident. I think it’s a mistake to see the mutants as neglecting their responsibilities as superheroes, when the Blond, blue-eyed, FF got a cushy ride through life, with no Sentinels chasing them down every 6 months.

The Fantastic Four are constant targets by super-villains, and hostile alien societies like the Kree and Skrulls.

[Zelena]

It’s posturing. Sue is disturbed by the overly confronting pro-X blathering, so she vents. I think Magneto has shown enough he is a compassionate superhero.

Magneto has been so many things that it's hard to say which person the current writer thinks of when he writes about him.

[Zelena]

Seems ignorant of some people to attribute everything in FF history as being rosy when they have had their fair share of tragedies like Reed having to shut down Franklin when he lost control, Johnny being duped by lyza and having to deal with the tragedy of a child setting himself alight to emulate him, Ben getting his face pulled to such a extent that he had to start wearing a helmet, bearing the guilt of watching Johnny die during the 3 arc, Sue losing Valeria, Reed missing being presumed dead shortly after, not to mention all the trauma that Doom had inflicted on them during unthinkable and other times he has attacked them using doombots and everything he can lay hands on etc. The list goes on. Sure they may not have faced as much prejudice and discrimination as the X Men but they have had their share of hardships just like the rest.

Comparing sufferings seems to be a constant to consider who is right. But, I agree with you, every 'hero' has his share of problems and sufferings.
I prefer justice and morale.

[Lucyinthesky]

I agree about suffering not being a reason for thinking character A is more morally standing than carácter b but I also think that one of the main flaws during this crossover is that the characters are a self centered, it´s hard to enjoy a story where all the characters are either posturing to make themselves seem better than others or talking about how their own moral superiority makes them so much better than other characters. This types of characterization doesn´t make any of the characters right either.

Can’t say I disagree with you here. Sue does seem to see the X-Nation as arrogant and pushy, but I feel the X-Nation is just being assertive and confident. I think it’s a mistake to see the mutants as neglecting their responsibilities as superheroes, when the Blond, blue-eyed, FF got a cushy ride through life, with no Sentinels chasing them down every 6 months.

Agreed, I think the main reason for this misunderstanding even if it not have been managed clearly in the story is the different main experiences, this happens in real life all the time so no reason for this not happening also in comics. I just didn´t like how each character position has been taken to the extreme during this whole crossover.

[Iron Maiden]

I agree about suffering not being a reason for thinking character A is more morally standing than carácter b but I also think that one of the main flaws during this crossover is that the characters are a self centered, it´s hard to enjoy a story where all the characters are either posturing to make themselves seem better than others or talking about how their own moral superiority makes them so much better than other characters. This types of characterization doesn´t make any of the characters right either.



Agreed, I think the main reason for this misunderstanding even if it not have been managed clearly in the story is the different main experiences, this happens in real life all the time so no reason for this not happening also in comics. I just didn´t like how each character position has been taken to the extreme during this whole crossover.

Yes, I can agree with that. A lot of this should have been water under the bridge. However you could make a story about how there have been some dubious things happening with the Krakoa "diplomatic team" that is guilty of breaking and entering and killing some guards. Sabretooth is not exactly the most stable person to be functioning as some kind of representative of your newly founded country. Maybe that should have been brought up in this series as justification for the Fantastic Four being concerned about their children.

[Sentenal]

"But it was still an event that negatively effected Franklin that had Xavier and Magneto at it's center. It doesn't make sense for it not to be mentioned in some way. Even as a throwaway line."



I don't know who Karen Storm is. Must be a cousin or something, haven't seen a character like that anywhere.

Anyway, she is comparing her team to the man who came spouting superiority and such nonsense. If you want to read it as to the entire mutant race then that's your prerogative I guess. Have at it.

Also personally, I don't think the mutants are heroes anymore (or a good minority metaphor). But that's a different convo for another day.

I think they did sort of mentioned Onslaught, it was in issue two when Sue was naming off two characters that had diplomatic immunity. She mentioned Sabretooth for the killing of the humans and then Apocalypse; why would she mention Apocalypse? I think it was what Happened in the first volume of Cable I think it was somewhere around issue 35 where it focused on Cable and Susan talking then Apocalypse shows up and volunteers to help free Franklin but in the end he either attempted to kill Franklin or infect him with the same virus Cable had....I think it was called the tekno-virus or some such.

[Ferro]

Yes, I can agree with that. A lot of this should have been water under the bridge. However you could make a story about how there have been some dubious things happening with the Krakoa "diplomatic team" that is guilty of breaking and entering a killing some guards. Sabretooth is not exactly the most stable person to be functioning as some kind of representative of your newly founded country. Maybe that should have been brought up in this series as justification for the Fantastic Four being concerned about their children.

sabertoth is in a literal pit, rotting for eternity, mutants deal with their justice considerably better than any of these organizations that tried to shove super villains into random mansions

[Alan2099]

Seems ignorant of some people to attribute everything in FF history as being rosy when they have had their fair share of tragedies like Reed having to shut down Franklin when he lost control, Johnny being duped by lyza and having to deal with the tragedy of a child setting himself alight to emulate him, Ben getting his face pulled to such a extent that he had to start wearing a helmet, bearing the guilt of watching Johnny die during the 3 arc, Sue losing Valeria, Reed missing being presumed dead shortly after, not to mention all the trauma that Doom had inflicted on them during unthinkable and other times he has attacked them using doombots and everything he can lay hands on etc. The list goes on. Sure they may not have faced as much prejudice and discrimination as the X Men but they have had their share of hardships just like the rest.

Even without the helmet, Ben has a long history of others (and himself) thinking of him as a monster. I think he could easily make the argument that more people would be freaked out seeing him walking down the street at night than they would Cyclops, Storm, or Gambit.

[Lucyinthesky]

Yes, I can agree with that. A lot of this should have been water under the bridge. However you could make a story about how there have been some dubious things happening with the Krakoa "diplomatic team" that is guilty of breaking and entering a killing some guards. Sabretooth is not exactly the most stable person to be functioning as some kind of representative of your newly founded country. Maybe that should have been brought up in this series as justification for the Fantastic Four being concerned about their children.

Hickman already adressed that right after that scene where Scott allowed the FF4 to take Sabretooth to the US authorities and then he was send to Krakoa to have his trial there, this happens all the time when some people from other countries commit crimes on foreign soil if their country of origin or the country they are associated with can take them back to be judged there. All the X-men needed to do was to give the FF4 a tour around Krakoa like they did with the ambassadors on HoX #1 but nooo, we had to have the un-original super hero fight over nothing.

They could also have used the oportunity to tell Reed Orchis is stealing his and Tony technology to make new sentinels.

[Iron Maiden]

Even without the helmet, Ben has a long history of others (and himself) thinking of him as a monster. I think he could easily make the argument that more people would be freaked out seeing him walking down the street at night than they would Cyclops, Storm, or Gambit.

Yes, this is what sometimes make the allegory of mutants being persecuted fail. Ben could be a mutant for all Joe Q. Public knows but for the most part he is accepted even though you could say he looks like a monster. Besides, I think in today's climate, mutants would probably be like the Kardashians and have their own TV series and blogs etc.

[The BaRoN]

X-Men fans are not happy with this mini

It’s glorious to see the arrogance of the X-Men slapped down after a few months of them being weird creepy “heroes”

Anyway, I’m loving this mini and I like Dodsons bright bold art.

[Lucyinthesky]

Yes, this is what sometimes make the allegory of mutants being persecuted fail. Ben could be a mutant for all Joe Q. Public knows but for the most part he is accepted even though you could say he looks like a monster. Besides, I think in today's climate, mutants would probably be like the Kardashians and have their own TV series and blogs etc.

Some of them but not all, I could see some of the X-men having fan-pages and even Magneto if we take in consideration his "Magneto was right" T-shirts that seem popular on the main MU but the least known mutants who have outside looking superpowers and can´t fight off sentinels on their own would not have such a great time, that´s the main reason why the existence of Krakoa was neccesary in my opinion, but it wasn´t quite clear until Rosemberg short run, there he made clear that after the world thought the X-men and Magneto were dead some goverments began a worldwide persecution, if we add this to all those decimation stories then it makes sense that for once mutants have at least a place to go, be safe and thrive and the X-mansion is not big enough for that imo

[Ferro]

X-Men fans are not happy with this mini

It’s glorious to see the arrogance of the X-Men slapped down after a few months of them being weird creepy “heroes”

Anyway, I’m loving this mini and I like Dodsons bright bold art.

case in point, this should have just been a slott arc because it doesnt need the x-men

[Billy Maximoff]

I'm glad we got a little less action and more character interactions (Especially Reed and Franklin). I wonder how it'll end, but overall it's still an excellent series.

[Lucyinthesky]

Well I can agree with that, as character work goes it´s a god FF4 story but the X-men could have been replaced by most of the FF4 antagonist, the Kree or the Skrulls would have done well,I can see them getting interested in using Franklins power, that´s my one main complain, it´s not much of a crossover story when one of the groups doing the crossover could have been replaced and not much would have changed. At least AvX made sure that story could only happen with the Avengers and the X-men as protagonists.