X-Men / Fantastic Four #3 Review with *SPOILERS*

[Zelena]

Hickman already adressed that right after that scene where Scott allowed the FF4 to take Sabretooth to the US authorities and then he was send to Krakoa to have his trial there, this happens all the time when some people from other countries commit crimes on foreign soil if their country of origin or the country they are associated with can take them back to be judged there. All the X-men needed to do was to give the FF4 a tour around Krakoa like they did with the ambassadors on HoX #1 but nooo, we had to have the un-original super hero fight over nothing.

They could also have used the oportunity to tell Reed Orchis is stealing his and Tony technology to make new sentinels.

Transferred to another country for the remainder of the sentence, yes, it happens…

Judged in another country than the one where the crime was committed, no, I don't think so… It's a question of sovereingty.

[Iron Maiden]

Well I can agree with that, as character work goes it´s a god FF4 story but the X-men could have been replaced by most of the FF4 antagonist, the Kree or the Skrulls would have done well,I can see them getting interested in using Franklins power, that´s my one main complain, it´s not much of a crossover story when one of the groups doing the crossover could have been replaced and not much would have changed. At least AvX made sure that story could only happen with the Avengers and the X-men as protagonists.

No, I think it has it's merits as a story that deals with the X-Men since Franklin is an Omega Level mutant. The problem lies in Reed once again not being forthcoming with his family. He still tends to keep too much to himself. We're seeing that the kids are getting too old to accept that from him anymore. He already is losing some of Valeria's attachment to him as a father in her relationship with "Uncle" Victor. You know that has got to hurt Reed when a child of his says that. And now Franklin is OK with going to Doom for help.

[Iron Maiden]

Transferred to another country for the remainder of the sentence, yes, it happens…

Judged in another country than the one where the crime was committed, no, I don't think so… It's a question of sovereingty.

Yeah, that really doesn't work. It gets tricky when you consider cyber crimes like with Julian Assange. The U.S. would love to get him extradited for trial here.

[Lucyinthesky]

Transferred to another country for the remainder of the sentence, yes, it happens…

Judged in another country than the one where the crime was committed, no, I don't think so… It's a question of sovereingty.

It depends really on the kind of treaties those two countries share and how they manage their issues, there are examples on rw where a country is looking for one of their members on foreign countries and ask for them to be send for a trial back at home but if the crime they are looking them for is not a crime on foreing country their solicitation can be rejected. It´s not a simple process and it can take many months but I don´t think comics Will use page time to explain all of this so Sabretooth was processed quite quickly.

In the case of Krakoa and the US it looks like the deal was that any mutant Will be handed over Krakoa to be judged by their peers and given what was Sabretooth sentence on Krakoa he may as well had it easier on jail.

[Zelena]

It depends really on the kind of treaties those two countries share and how they manage their issues, there are examples on rw where a country is looking for one of their members on foreign countries and ask for them to be send for a trial back at home but if the crime they are looking them for is not a crime on foreing country their solicitation can be rejected. It´s not a simple process and it can take many months but I don´t think comics Will use page time to explain all of this so Sabretooth was processed quite quickly.

In the case of Krakoa and the US it looks like the deal was that any mutant Will be handed over Krakoa to be judged by their peers and given what was Sabretooth sentence on Krakoa he may as well had it easier on jail.

Still a doubtful political move. It would weaken the government of the country that makes a favour to the mutants of Krakoa… These latter have twisted arms to be recognized.

[useridgoeshere]

Well I can agree with that, as character work goes it´s a god FF4 story but the X-men could have been replaced by most of the FF4 antagonist, the Kree or the Skrulls would have done well,I can see them getting interested in using Franklins power, that´s my one main complain, it´s not much of a crossover story when one of the groups doing the crossover could have been replaced and not much would have changed. At least AvX made sure that story could only happen with the Avengers and the X-men as protagonists.

Exactly. It's a Franklin running away to Doom story. The X-Men are irrelevant, even as a plot device, and only used to generate sales because the FF can't do it on their own.

[Lucyinthesky]

Still a doubtful political move. It would weaken the government of the country that makes a favour to the mutants of Krakoa… These latter have twisted arms to be recognized.

I have yet see them twist anyone´s arms imo and the US is hardly a country that lests it arms get twisted, especially the one in the MU. Sabretooth´s trial happened at the same time the US accepted the deal to get the mutant drugs but they didn´t do so lightly after all that was after they send an assasain to get Xavier a week before it so they get the drugs but this doesn´t mean they wont have a cold war with the mutants in the long term.

Exactly. It's a Franklin running away to Doom story. The X-Men are irrelevant, even as a plot device, and only used to generate sales because the FF can't do it on their own.

They have their fanbase but a crossover always gets attention, the first issue of this crossover got into the first ten spots on sales, there was a lot of expectation and good wishes for this series from both the X-men and the FF4 fans. Lest see if the dissapointment on this forum reflects on their sales for issue #2.

But I agree the X-men were completely irrelevant on this crossover and that´s just sad, this story had much potential.

[Chris0013]

I just love Doom in this. Telling Charles off and calling out Emma for being hypocritical.

[Ferro]

pot calling the kettle black

[Iron Maiden]

pot calling the kettle black

Doom is like a recovering megalomaniac. He came out of the other side of Secret Wars with a new outlook on things. His motivations and methods as Infamous Iron Man were questionable but there is some hope for him yet. It's like the secret Elders of the Universe are preparing him for some reason. He has a knack for acquiring and wielding great power but hasn't got the responsibility part down yet. He's a god killer but hasn't really learned how to be one yet.



Of course, that depends on the writer... there may be some backsliding. I can see that coming in Zdarsky's story. But there is so much on the table here to cover in just one issue that I have to doubts about a satisfactory conclusion.

[Chris0013]

So does Logan get put in the dirt right next to Sabretooth? It looks like he just murdered a human.

[king of hybrids]

And on that note, what exactly would the F4’s trial on Krakoa entail?

A modification of the first law not to cover superhumans, a one way trip to the Pit?

[Lucyinthesky]

No, I think it has it's merits as a story that deals with the X-Men since Franklin is an Omega Level mutant. The problem lies in Reed once again not being forthcoming with his family. He still tends to keep too much to himself. We've seeing that the kids are getting too old to accept that from him anymore. He already is losing some of Valeria's attachment to him as a father in her relationship with "Uncle" Victor. You know that has got to hurt Reed when a child of his says that. And now Franklin is OK with going to Doom for help.

I agree it´s an interesting exploration of Reed, Val, Victor and Franklin past and present story, if Chip had adressed the secret wars ending and Doom´s time as Iron Man would have been nice too, my only problem with this is that this is a perfectly good story to do with FF4 on their team book, the X-men here are not supposed to be cameos and no one of them adds anything to a story that´s bassically about Franklin stoping being a child right along with Valeria and having problems with the way his parents see him, you don´t need a crossover to explore those themes so the X-men part here is merely superficial which could have been fine and good if they were just cameos but not so if this is a FF4/XM crossover.

If this story wanted to explore Franklin exploring his identity as a mutant but also being worried with his powers then it would have had a different spin then it would have made sense for the X-men to get involved but without any of this they are characters that don´t have anything to do with this story imo.

And on that note, what exactly would the F4’s trial on Krakoa entail?

A modification of the first law not to cover superhumans, a one way trip to the Pit?

I guess the X-men could give them a trial for traspasing borders and spying on a goverment meeting , which again also could happen with the Kree tbh and the accusers are more fun to see when they judge people than the Quiet Council, but Scott already got to blew up their ship so I can see them agree to let bygones be bygones. But I seriously don´t think the story will end with a trial more like each team going their own way. Also the pit is only for mutants

[useridgoeshere]

They have their fanbase but a crossover always gets attention, the first issue of this crossover got into the first ten spots on sales, there was a lot of expectation and good wishes for this series from both the X-men and the FF4 fans. Lest see if the dissapointment on this forum reflects on their sales for issue #2.

But I agree the X-men were completely irrelevant on this crossover and that´s just sad, this story had much potential.

Actually, sales are to stores and they're ordered well in advance. The poor quality of the story and lack of relevance to the X-Men won't impact sales we see for any of the four issues.

[Iron Maiden]

I agree it´s an interesting exploration of Reed, Val, Victor and Franklin past and present story, if Chip had adressed the secret wars ending and Doom´s time as Iron Man would have been nice too, my only problem with this is that this is a perfectly good story to do with FF4 on their team book, the X-men here are not supposed to be cameas and no one of them adds anything to a story that´s bassically about Franklin stoping being a child right along with Valeria and having problems with the way his parents see him, you don´t need a crossover to explore those themes so the X-men part here is merely superficial which could have been fine and good if they were just cameos but not so if this is a crossover.

If this story wanted to explore Franklin exploring his identity as a mutant but also being worried with his powers then it would have had a different spin then it would have made sense for the X-men to get involved but without any of this they are characters that don´t have anything to do with this story imo.



I guess the X-men could give them a trial for trasspasing boders and spy on a goverment meeting, which again also could happen with the Kree tbh and the accusers are more fun to see when they judge people than the Quiet Council, but Scott already got to blew up their ship so I can see them agree to let bygones be bygones. But I seriously don´t think the story will end with a trial more like each team going their own way. Also the pit is only for mutants

And then as Doom points out, they are all trespassing on Latverian territory. I don't know if Doom conjured up this place or it is one of those islands created by volcanic activity. From the map it appears to be in international waters so I guess he has the right to claim it.

I do agree with the X-Men being used in a manner that really isn't necessary. I get that Zdarsky is giving some homages to the earlier Fantastic Four / X-Men mini. Even that one had a fight between the X-Men and the FF but it got resolved pretty quickly. Kitty was around the same age Franklin is now and they both have an issue with their powers. etc. Franklin has been coming across as too juvenile which is a shame. IMO he's not been done very well ever since he returned from the Secret Wars rebuilding aftermath. T