X-Men/Fantastic Four #3 Discussion

[butterflykyss]

Doom calling out Xavier, i got to say i rather liked that bit.

So does Logan get a pass for killing that guy or gets a trip to the sphincter?

I was wondering the same thing. send him to the pit.

[Kurolegacy]

Doom calling out Xavier, i got to say i rather liked that bit.

So does Logan get a pass for killing that guy or gets a trip to the sphincter?

The person Logan killed was most likely a mutant so he’ll get a slap on the wrist.

[jackolover]

Thoughts:

- Wolverine stabbing indiscriminately bugged me - I cant stand Wolverine, tho - but I realize that he thought that he was attacking DoomBots. Apparently his super senses weren’t working and he couldn’t smell or hear that the ‘bots’ were people in armor, with sweat and heartbeats and breathing...

Not impressed...

I agree with you on this. Wolverine not sensing by smell that this isn’t a tinker toy, with machine oil, Doombot, is out of character.

Another thing. I am seeing 3 of the previous Illuminati in the one room together, and the tension between them seems combative for people once on the same team. Reed, Hank and Charles. I’d include Doom in that group, because if the Illuminati had come to Doom about Incursions, none of this would have happened (Secret Wars and its aftermath). I do wonder if anybody at Marvel would dare to regroup the Illuminati in the ANAD? If they do, then Doom had better be on that group from the start. Doom played well in the Dark Reign Cabal. I should think Doom would do well in a superhero group as well.

[Iron Maiden]

I noticed that Reed is cynical towards any improvement in Dr Doom in ANAD. In the previous iteration of the MU, Doom would put Franklin in Hell, but these days, even though Doom tried to siffon off Galactus’ power, the Doom that has been shown helping Tony Stark is another Doom.

We have seen Doom being reconciliatory towards the FF and X-Men here, so I am inclined to think it is worth experimenting on Franklin to heal him. But I fully understand Reeds suspicions, in that on other occasions Doom hides behind incidents of compassion just to turn the tables to gain power for himself, and I think it’s a good chance Doom will double cross everyone concerned. But, if there is a chance Franklin can get his power back, turning the tables on Doom’s betrayal is worth trying.

I am still impressed by Valeria’s dismissive nature of her father, Reed. Maybe it’s simply teenage rebellion, but it’s the willing acceptance that Doom is better, here, that has me intrigued does Val shift from the FF towards Doom? I am wondering why Franky and Val accept Dooms ability to help so readily. Val and a Franky did sneak out of FF HQ to go to Krakoa, so the kids already had a frame of mind of rebellion from their parents, so maybe Doom is preferable?

The children's relationship with Doom is pretty complicated especially when you factor in the future versions of them that Hickman used in his Fantastic Four. For one thing I've always considered Valeria a reincarnation of Claremont's Valeria von Doom that appeared in his Fantastic Four run. Franklin had a lot to do with her birth along with Reed because at the end of the Abraxas arc, Reed used the Ultimate Nullifier and rebooted the multiverse. This resulted in Sue becoming pregnant again with the child she miscarried in Byrne's run. Franklin and Roma saved the unborn child from the Byrne FF and put her in some limbo until her birth years later. Sometimes all of this gives me a headache Valeria became Doom's familiar in Unthinkable on top of that.

Now fast forward to years later when Val and Nathaniel Richards had to come up with a plan to defeat the Dreaming Celestials, their plan needed someone to buy time for it to all work. Valeria persuaded Doom to help out and he would hold them off long enough to delay their arrival. Valeria provided the incentive for Doom by telling him there were a couple of Infinity Gauntlets in the ruins of the Council of Reeds citadel. But only one of them would function in this universe. To make a long story short, Future Val came back to remind them that they had to go rescue Doom because his Doomverse and the "children" he created from the IG had turned on him.

As to Doom post SW, I have to commend Bendis for trying to do something different with Doom that was also the logical follow up by having him embark on a new path. I mostly liked Infamous Iron Man even though Bendis overused The Hood and his low rent cronies. Slott pretty much trashes it but I like what Christopher Cantwell is doing in the solo.

[Iron Maiden]

I agree with you on this. Wolverine not sensing by smell that this isn’t and tinker toy, with machine oil, Doombot, is out of character.

That made no sense to me either. And that looked like an adult in the Doombot and not another child as someone mentioned. But it may be one of the Latveria mutants that are unaccounted for. Either that or maybe Doom is usin his theory about Von Doom particles to power up his Doom Sentinels by channeling the Latverian mutants energy into them.

[Tycon]

https://twitter.com/aliastager/statu...630599682?s=21



L M A O

[Iron Maiden]

Sexism raises its ugly head, again. Doom was, but he rarely uses it. It's a big event when he does.

Not anymore. He's teamed up with Doctor Strange and was using it to fight Kulan Gath in Savage Avengers. He's been using it often Cantwell's Doom series When he surrendered after being framed for the Antlion disaster he was spellcasting because he agreed to remove his armor apparently when being taken into custody

[jonincentex]

Why? Magneto is still acting like a douchebag and caring that Franklin become their weapon.

Yeah, how dare she be the only character in the entire comic book that actually expresses realistic emotions reflecting a mother who fears losing her child.

I can imagine the apology the x-men supporters want to hear from Susan, "I'm sorry Professor, it was a mistake to 2nd. guess you, please make all the decisions for my child of 14 from now on. I'll just stay out of it because I'm just a human and have no right to make any decisions for any member of a superior species son or no son of mine, especially when he is potentially your most powerful member. Oh, and of course, I fully support Kate taking upon herself the right to decide for Franklin, so please relay my humble, simple human apologies to her superior self as well."

AS far as spying on the mutants on Krakoa, funny how no one wonders exactly how did Xavier know about Reed's attempt to solve what was causing his son to lose his power? Was he spying on the FF without their knowledge as well?

[jonincentex]

You're really stretching with bashing Sue. Reed and Sue have never, in all of Marvel history, displayed anything like anti-mutant bias. Hell, the early stories after Franklin was born they had to deal with a lot of it. Franklin's image was used in in-universe anti-mutant propaganda! Calling Sue 'Karen' is silly when Emma and Xavier, the too biggest examples of white privilege in Marvel, are in the same room.

Sentinels can't be a moral event horizon when one of the leaders of Krakoa has used them on other groups. They can't just be a terrible evil when it happens to mutants, but OK when mutants do it to other people. Honestly, at this point it would be weirder if every nation DIDN'T have Sentinels in case war breaks out with Krakoa.

I agree, the Sue bashing is nonsense. It begs the question exactly how do they expect her to talk to him? They are quick to slam her, but never say what they expect.

The comments that slam her all seem to have the same dismissive tone. Because there is no explanation it seems a bit misogynistic, like they just don't like an uppity human woman taking a powerful, male mutant to task for being a jerk. They completely ignore that she is NOT an also-ran superhero. She in her own way is as powerful as magneto. Sue is one of the few who can speak to Magneto based on her powers alone, yet they are shocked, put off that she persists on talking to him defiantly and confidently. Sue is one of the few characters that could kill him. His helmet wouldn't protect him if she opted to use her force shields offensively. She is one of the most powerful humans in the marvel universe, though because she is almost always shown using them defensively, it's rare that we see how potentially lethal her powers are. Few super-humans would have a chance against her save for a telepath.

It's not like the FF hasn't saved the world more than all the x-men teams combined. IF there is one team that can speak to any of the X-men as equals it's the FF.

Her comment to Magneto was a call back to Cyclops comment re Valeria about her not being a concern of the Mutant nation, only her brother Franklin. She was also making a succinct reference to the nature of a hero, implying "heroes" help without there being a personal interest at stake. In the Marvel universe the FF are still heroes (even if the current FF book is the worst written one ever). She certainly has the cred to speak to him that way.

She wasn't just insulting him. She was literally pointing out the reason why he is NOT, because he only helps when it serves his purposes, and looks down on most humans as being beneath his notice.

[Tycon]

I was wondering how long it would take the Sue discourse to take the misogyny route.

[Veitha]

I wanted to hear Emma ask Sue to help them. Imagine the banter if Sue didn't show interest.

[The BaRoN]

Don’t know why everyone is hating on this

I’m loving it, the x creeps are showing their true colours here and Doom was spot in with his Xavier talk.

I love the X-Men books right now but they’re being very weird which has been fun until they go to far.

Anyone with a child would agree with Susan’s reaction completely and her comment about helping everyone was spot on.

I can see this ending with Reed threatening Xavier with finding out what he’s up too.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I can see this ending with Reed threatening Xavier with finding out what he’s up too.

Moira X's expression the she learns about this.

[Veitha]

Don’t know why everyone is hating on this

I’m loving it, the x creeps are showing their true colours here and Doom was spot in with his Xavier talk.

I love the X-Men books right now but they’re being very weird which has been fun until they go to far.

Anyone with a child would agree with Susan’s reaction completely and her comment about helping everyone was spot on.

I can see this ending with Reed threatening Xavier with finding out what he’s up too.

We're hating on this because it's badly written. No way a good written Xavier would allow Doom to say that without answering back, especially coming from the murderous dictator that Doom is. No way Wolverine would act like that and be so stupid (he's got supersenses for God's sake). Also, it's the worst cliche of heroes clashing and then coming together against a bigger threat.

[Glio]

It's hard to take Doom seriously trying to gain moral superiority when he recently killed a bum in his comic for wanting to get on his train car.