Page 16 of 26 FirstFirst ... 6121314151617181920 ... LastLast
Results 226 to 240 of 388
  1. #226
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    4,632

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    When you fail to speak up for what you believe is right, you are weak. And complicit in any actions that take place in your name.

    People outside of Germany knew what Hitler was doing, and did nothing. Influential people like Henry Ford and Prescott Bush worked hard to keep politicians silent and kept the masses ignorant. Meanwhile, America was still DEEPLY anti-Semitic well into the 40’s, with a large swath of citizens believing Hitler was right to put the Jews in camps. Hitler and the Nazis were not some tiny outlier. They had the active and complacent assistance of the majority in acting out their horrors.

    Christianity has vilified and demonized LGBT+ people for CENTURIES. Calling for our VIOLENT deaths, blaming us for EVERY disease, famine, natural disaster, anytime a progressive policy or person is in danger of winning...and I keep being told that ‘It’s not ALL Christians, just the loud ones! Some christian denominations even embrace gay people!’ And all I think about is where were those churches during the AIDS epidemic? Where where those Christians after 9/11, when Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson blames gay people? Where are they now, when their leaders are blaming us for the Coronavirus? Where are they when their leaders call us pedophiles? Say our families aren’t legitimate? Where are they when their leaders call for us to be stoned in the streets? Or that our ‘blood should be upon [us]’ for our sinfulness? Where are the ‘good’ Christians to counteract the powerful voices of their leaders? They are ALL complicit in the actions of their leaders and their loudest brethren.

    616 humanity is the same, on a larger scale.
    Look I'm not about to sit here and debate religion with you because it seems like you have some underlying unresolved issues with Christianity that I don't have time for cause it's not my buisness.

    My point is just because someone is to weak to speak up against what's blatantly wrong doesn't make them complicit to the actions of those committing the sins. People look out for themselves, interest, and their families first, it's just nature, but I'm not about to sit here and debate philosophy either feel how you want *shrugs*

  2. #227
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Latverian Embassy
    Posts
    20,623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    The standard is that people (like I've said in previous posts in this thread) expect mutants to help humanity while humanity has mostly done harm to mutants. You also expect them to share their tech and inventions (I've seen some people even criticize them for not giving out the drugs for free lol) while usually it is not the same for countries like Wakanda. Krakoa is a country, and as such they're going to look at their interests first. But, unlike Latveria and Wakanda, they're also still helping humans.
    So where do these expectations come from? The X-Men have historically remained hidden and not usually the first option. And I have to go back to Onslaught. All the heroes showed up there, even Doom showed up and got reluctantly dragged along to
    Franklin's blue ball planet. But the X-Men had to stand aside. But I don't see anyone giving them grief over it in the MU.

  3. #228
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    12,734

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Is it though aren't their like 2 Vulkings running around at the moment?
    Um no???? Y’all real quick to make any anti Krakoa theory into fact

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    So where do these expectations come from? The X-Men have historically remained hidden and not usually the first option. And I have to go back to Onslaught. All the heroes showed up there, even Doom showed up and got reluctantly dragged along to
    Franklin's blue ball planet. But the X-Men had to stand aside. But I don't see anyone giving them grief over it in the MU.
    I recommend reading Operation: Zero Tolerance

  4. #229
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,269

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    And Doom owes Mistress Death after she resurrected him when Taskmaster shot him in the head. This could get very interesting. We don't know what she will demand, if anything
    Yes I had the hope this series would actually be about this after I read the solicits that mentioned an "Island of Doom" but I was so wrong. Stil itīs an interesting concept to explore for Dr Doom on his series and for the X-men now that the writers wante to make more supernatural stories about them. What I am sure of is that the X-men playing so life and death should at least get attention for some of the Marvel entities whose concern is precisely that and that should make for a great story imo.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 03-26-2020 at 12:55 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

    Magneto: The master of magnetism Appreciation 2022
    Polaris: The Mistress of Magnetism Appreciation 2022
    House of M Appreciation 2022

  5. #230
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    4,632

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Um no???? Y’all real quick to make any anti Krakoa theory into fact
    Okay I'm not anti Krakoa, and I never said it was a fact it was a question hence the ? Mark.

  6. #231
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,269

    Default

    Yes it seems that the Vulcan of the "War of kings" crossover is still alive but also is the Vulcan who currently lives at Scottīs house. In one of the data pages it was said it was a bad thing when two of the same people are around so I guess Hickman wants to explore that possibility with Vulcan.

    Itīs going to get messy, War of Kings Vulcan hates his brother and father with a capital H while his counter part seems to have forgotten all that hate, also King Vulcan had a child with Deathbirth and ruled the shiar for a while, that means problem for Gladiator but also for Xandra, Xavierīs daughter with Lilandra. Itīs the right kind of messy that makes me think of future GOT type of X-men stories.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 03-26-2020 at 01:04 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

    Magneto: The master of magnetism Appreciation 2022
    Polaris: The Mistress of Magnetism Appreciation 2022
    House of M Appreciation 2022

  7. #232
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Latverian Embassy
    Posts
    20,623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    It is the view you take when looking at humanity through mutant eyes. *shrug* It’s the humanity we are presented in our stories, over and over.

    And the Joker was never put in charge of an international security and espionage force. Nor has he been made mayor, or put in charge of a mental hospital. Norman Osborne has. Greyson Creed almost became President before his mother assassinated him. Mutantkind sees humanity as wanting them dead. And humanity has done nothing but prove them right. Over and over and over and over and over and...

    I am able to see this from their perspective because I know what it is like to be part of a vilified, demonized, oppressed minority who regularly deals with calls for violence and eradication.
    I see that you have more vested in this than just what's on the page here. I am just dealing within the scope of just this fictional world. I enjoy the escapism of the comic book medium but apparently you find some bitterness there too.

    But back to the topic, I agree that Osborn ascended way too far to be realistic but I guess....Bendis. But Joker never seems to serve a full sentence on anything. Super-villains are always escaping from confinement. I doubt that Marvel wants to convey the idea that all of mankind wants mutants dead. It only seems that way when the loudest and stupidest ones swarm together... Like a Trump rally

  8. #233
    Cosmic Sandwich Metal Sphere's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Yes it seems that the Vulcan of the "War of kings" crossover is still alive but also is the Vulcan who currently lives at Scottīs house. In one of the data pages it was said it was a bad thing when two of the same people are around so I guess Hickman wants to explore that possibility with Vulcan.

    Itīs going to get messy, War of Kings Vulcan hates his brother and father with a capital H while his counter part seems to have forgotten all that hate, also King Vulcan had a child with Deathbirth and ruled the shiar for a while, that means problem for Gladiator but also for Xandra, Xavierīs daughter with Lilandra. Itīs the right kind of messy that makes me think of future GOT type of X-men stories.
    Oh yeah, when it was teased super hard that OG Vulcan might still be alive I knew we were going to get super rough GoT style court antics.

    Anyways, about this issue? Better than the first two, but still not great. That page with Doom tearing down Charles would've been better if Charles were allowed a retort so ideas could get explored more. Doom is a hypocrite but his point is true, not all Krakoans need diplomatic immunity and the current setup does come across as clearly valuing mutant-anything above humans. But, this is something Hickman himself will cover properly later on.

    I just hope the last issue is better, so this can end on an "Okay" note. I don't want these two teams on bad terms. The X-Men have plenty of enemies as is, and the superhero v superhero thing is dull.

  9. #234
    Mighty Member zinderel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,515

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I see that you have more vested in this than just what's on the page here. I am just dealing within the scope of just this fictional world. I enjoy the escapism of the comic book medium but apparently you find some bitterness there too.

    But back to the topic, I agree that Osborn ascended way too far to be realistic but I guess....Bendis. But Joker never seems to serve a full sentence on anything. Super-villains are always escaping from confinement. I doubt that Marvel wants to convey the idea that all of mankind wants mutants dead. It only seems that way when the loudest and stupidest ones swarm together... Like a Trump rally
    Then I’d say they need to do a better job of showing it. Prime rule of visual storytelling: Show, don’t tell. Don’t TELL me that most humans are cool with/support mutants right to live. SHOW me. What we are SHOWN is that humans hate and fear mutants and work SUPER HARD to defy all known laws of physics and decency to eradicate them, no matter what the X-Men did or tried. So they’ve stopped trying to make humans happy and are focusing on making their own people safe and happy, and that makes them ‘antagonists’ or ‘fascist cult members’. If Marvel doesn’t want us thinking the worst of 616 Humanity, then they need to stop being so fickle and crappy to the heroes DEMONSTRABLY SAVING THEIR COLLECTIVE BACON on the reg. Show us a GRATEFUL humanity once in a while. Or just...not the WORST examples of human nature, repeatedly. Stop making humanity so awful. We get enough of that in the real world. Give us something uplifting to aspire and escape to. Don’t mirror the WORST parts of the real world in making the 616 ‘the world outside your window’.

    Which brings me to your earlier point: It’s not the bitterness in comics that is the problem. The problem is what that bitterness reflects. It’s not that I’m ‘vested’ in the comics. It’s that the bitterness in the fandom and the general s*****ness of mankind on display in America right now is so clearly reflected in the presentation of humanity in comics, and it’s impossible to miss, for me.

    Right now, the idea of an oppressed minority uniting and coming together to build a nation for themselves - mistakes and all - has relevance and meaning for a lot of people. Just like seeing Captain America go after the German American Bund and war profiteers when he wasn’t allowed to go after Nazis had relevance and meaning for a lot of people, then. Seeing Krakoa I ironically called some of the things it gets called in and out of universe before it even really has had a chance to show us what it is? That pisses some folks - myself included - off, and makes us wonder what comics the rest of you have been reading that your perspectives are SO different. It makes people wonder how people might feel if ACTUAL minorities stepped up and united and said ‘no more’. It speaks to the concept of privilege. It reflects the way people spoke about REAL minorities rising up and not accepting scraps or targeted violence anymore. It reflects poorly on the REAL world.

    I enjoy the escapism of beautiful people in tights fighting giant men in purple skirts as much as anyone! I’m just not blind to the problematic way a LOT of people, real and fictional, are reacting to this era of mutant history, ESPECIALLY given the well known metaphor mutants have represented since their inception.
    Last edited by zinderel; 03-26-2020 at 01:45 PM.

  10. #235
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    4,632

    Default

    The only thing that made any of this come off like a cult was the fact that no one was showing doubt. That's changed now so at the moment, their just a nation with questionable leadership. Which could be said for the whole world so basically their just a nation.

  11. #236
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,269

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Sphere View Post
    Oh yeah, when it was teased super hard that OG Vulcan might still be alive I knew we were going to get super rough GoT style court antics.
    Agreed

    Anyways, about this issue? Better than the first two, but still not great. That page with Doom tearing down Charles would've been better if Charles were allowed a retort so ideas could get explored more. Doom is a hypocrite but his point is true, not all Krakoans need diplomatic immunity and the current setup does come across as clearly valuing mutant-anything above humans. But, this is something Hickman himself will cover properly later on.
    Agreed about Xavier, itīs not a real debate if only one character is allowed to talk back, half of the fun of the old X-men vs Magneto stories was getting to see Charles and Magneto debate as if no one else was around while the X-men were just like: lest just take him down and be done with it XD.

    From what I understand mutants that enter Krakoa "the first time" have immunity in that they will not be jailed unless they represent a danger to the Krakoan population, like Red Omega, but mutants who are living around the world still can be send to jail when they commit a crime but in their case they can parlay to be given a place on Krakoa because they are mutants. Itīs messy imo but this doesnīt mean they all have diplomatic inmunity, they just can get Krakoaīs support and defense if they get in trouble and ask for it. Thatīs how I understood that. So far the majority of mutants have choose to move to Krakoa but there are still some like Pete Wisdom who still wants to work for England. There must be a lot of mutants in that position that have no need of going to Krakoa.

    I just hope the last issue is better, so this can end on an "Okay" note. I don't want these two teams on bad terms. The X-Men have plenty of enemies as is, and the superhero v superhero thing is dull.
    Agreed lest hope they end the story at least on speaking terms.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 03-26-2020 at 01:44 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

    Magneto: The master of magnetism Appreciation 2022
    Polaris: The Mistress of Magnetism Appreciation 2022
    House of M Appreciation 2022

  12. #237
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    4,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Agreed about Xavier, itīs not a real debate if only one character is allowed to talk back, half of the fun of the old X-men vs Magneto stories was getting to see Charles and Magneto debate as if no one else was around while the X-men were just like: lest just take him down and be done with it XD.
    Charles Xavier was an ideologue, an intellectual, once.
    Now, it's not that he is not allowed to talk back, it's like he has nothing to say.
    He had no empathy, hiding his face behind a helmet. Now he has no retort.

    It feels… wrong.
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  13. #238
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    4,026

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Charles Xavier was an ideologue, an intellectual, once.
    Now, it's not that he is not allowed to talk back, it's like he has nothing to say.
    He had no empathy, hiding his face behind a helmet. Now he has no retort.

    It feels… wrong.
    he has no retort because the writer doesnt want him to and cuts the page anytime its the x-mens turn to speak up, every issue this has happened.
    It feels wrong because its bad writting to create a one sided narrative

  14. #239
    Astonishing Member useridgoeshere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    he has no retort because the writer doesnt want him to and cuts the page anytime its the x-mens turn to speak up, every issue this has happened.
    It feels wrong because its bad writting to create a one sided narrative
    That's because the X-Men are non-entities in the story. It's a FF story with Mutants added in for a commercial reason, not a narrative reason.

  15. #240
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    3,450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    It's hard to take Doom seriously trying to gain moral superiority when he recently killed a bum in his comic for wanting to get on his train car.
    Doom never has moral superiority. He's just a narcissistic egomaniacal fascist who can't bring himself to admit he's not the best at everything.

    He's back on his "I'm smarter than Richards" bullshit even after the end of Secret Wars lol

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •