X-Men/Fantastic Four #3 Discussion

[Hulkout42]

Doom calling out Xavier, i got to say i rather liked that bit.

So does Logan get a pass for killing that guy or gets a trip to the sphincter?

[Hulkout42]

A certain blonde owes the mutants an apology.

Why? Magneto is still acting like a douchebag and caring that Franklin become their weapon.

[Journey]

Doom calling out Xavier, i got to say i rather liked that bit.

So does Logan get a pass for killing that guy or gets a trip to the sphincter?

This takes place early Krakoa so for all we know this Logan might be throwing hands when Sabertooth in the depths of the pit, and they "resurrected" another one for X-Force! Or it'll turn out just to be an advanced doom bot or some ****. Either way no one cares.

[Tycon]

Power Dynamics? if you know of a thesis somewhere that talks about the power dynamics of a minority with an equal chance of being a walking wasteland or looking like a zoo animal, I'd be happy to read it. The idea of power dynamics with mutants is all over the place when you factor in superpowers.

haha i get it, cause x-men aren't real. I'm taking into account what mutants mean both in-universe and concerning the mutant metaphor. Things play out a bit differently for people like Legion and X-Man, but being a mutant means being more prone to being discriminated against or hate-crimed.

Sentinels are terrible and evil. But that doesn't mean mutants should get a pass when they reprogram them to attack their own enemies, like Emma did to the Inhumans. For Krakoa to treat the Sentinels like an unforgivable evil when a member of their own government has used them on a DIFFERENT minority is total hypocrisy. I wasn't even talking about Shaw having a hand in financing and constructing a huge chunk of them.

The Inhumans who sat back while their clouds killed tons of people?? They may be a "minority" in terms of numbers but they certainly weren't treated as such or to the extent that mutants were.

I'm not saying mutants should start using Sentinels, but there is no 1:1 equivalency between the two situations because it means something different to mutants than it would Inhumans, humans, etc etc.

Shaw was beyond disgusting for that, but we shouldn't be surprised; as one of the chief powerhouses (financially and politically speaking) of the Hellfire Club, he's made it clear again and again that he gives no more f***s about other mutants, particularly if they're not wealthy and powerful like he and his cohorts, than he does about anybody else. Elitists like him are only about themselves, and see everyone else as at best a means to an end or at worst as obstacles to be removed.

I think somewhere in his capitalist-poisoned mind is a soft spot for mutantkind. He did have an impressive showing when the twins brought up the Bohem Cartel incident to him. But if someone is in his way or obstructing his self-proclaimed destiny, then he'll stop at nothing to get rid of them.

Like the current Squadron Supreme of America over in the Avengers comics after the Avengers made it clear that they didn't (and wouldn't) answer to any nation's government and could choose their own leaders/chairs regardless of what the U.S. government in particular felt about it? Hell, they had Spider-Slayers and Hulkbusters for individual heroes like Spider-Man and the Hulk, and during the Civil War/Initiative era, the unit nicknamed "Capekillers" was set up to deal with any and all "rogue superhumans," mutant or not. That would be fairer and more evenhanded than just singling out mutants again and again.

It's a much more effective way, too. Like... okay Sentinels Sentinels Sentinels, they are just giant ass targets. I really don't know why they're still being hyped during this era but I guess some stuff has to stay the same. Governments in the MU have limitless defense budgets so I wouldn't put it above them to experiment on some humans and make some fresh mutates for Krakoan contingencies.

[Hulkout42]

Damn, not a good day for Scott Summers. The women are disrespecting him from book to book

Diplomacy has not been his strong suit in this series given how little he has accomplished.

[Journey]

2 and a half years ago. It was referenced in X-men Red

Yeah I totally read that book like totes!! Loved it adored it!! Totally read it!! For sure............

[JB]

Doom calling out Xavier, i got to say i rather liked that bit.

So does Logan get a pass for killing that guy or gets a trip to the sphincter?

A world where Xavier wouldn't counter Doom's words is a world that doesn't exist, but we take what is on the page. Normally we'd get a two page speech from Charles and we all know that's true.

Logan's "killing" was clearly an accident as even Sue thought it was a Doombot.

[Ferro]

Yeah I totally read that book like totes!! Loved it adored it!! Totally read it!! For sure............

unless you really love jean grey you're not missing much

[Hulkout42]

We're living in interesting times.

First Sabertooth, then Mystique and now Doom

[Journey]

unless you really love jean grey you're not missing much

Yeah no Marvel Girl can "try harder" somewhere else don't care at all.

[Lucyinthesky]

I kinda agree with Sue re: Eric. Has Mags ever really done anything good simply because it was the right thing to do? Aren't his heroic turns usually predicated on him trying to make up for his villainous past or because of traumas he's experienced or because he's concerned with solely saving mutants?

I can think of a few situations: Axis crossover, he got a team of villains to save the heros and the world from Reed Skull, Mothervine when Bastion and Ms Sinister wanted to forcibly make more mutants using a drug on humans, Secret Wars, he tried to keep the 616 earth together from collision with Ultimate earth.

His main interest are mutants, that´s true but he´s not completely adverse to humakind, it´s just symply that he has not done that his life mission the way most super heros, like the X-men have done, it would be interesting to see a litte more of that side of him.

[spirit2011]

Yeah no Marvel Girl can "try harder" somewhere else don't care at all.

Red was one of the best x-books on last decade

Diplomacy has not been his strong suit in this series given how little he has accomplished.

not only Scott, but the whole team is a constant failure

[nx01a]

As for Doom . . . well, Doom's a big old hypocrite who postures like he's superior when damn near everything he's done and become is rooted in petty jealousy that Reed Richards is even slightly smarter than him. Not taking that one back.

Don't take it back. It's absolutely true.

[guy_gardner]

Yeah I'm mostly positive and see the brighter side of things but when they conveniently crash-landed on Doom Island, I checked out.

Not gonna lie, this was delicious though:

I can tell Reed is thinking "you ************, I was nice to you and fixed your face after all that Secret Wars bullshit"

[jackolover]

I noticed that Reed is cynical towards any improvement in Dr Doom in ANAD. In the previous iteration of the MU, Doom would put Franklin in Hell, but these days, even though Doom tried to siffon off Galactus’ power, the Doom that has been shown helping Tony Stark is another Doom.

We have seen Doom being reconciliatory towards the FF and X-Men here, so I am inclined to think it is worth experimenting on Franklin to heal him. But I fully understand Reeds suspicions, in that on other occasions Doom hides behind incidents of compassion just to turn the tables to gain power for himself, and I think it’s a good chance Doom will double cross everyone concerned. But, if there is a chance Franklin can get his power back, turning the tables on Doom’s betrayal is worth trying.

I am still impressed by Valeria’s dismissive nature of her father, Reed. Maybe it’s simply teenage rebellion, but it’s the willing acceptance that Doom is better, here, that has me intrigued does Val shift from the FF towards Doom? I am wondering why Franky and Val accept Dooms ability to help so readily. Val and a Franky did sneak out of FF HQ to go to Krakoa, so the kids already had a frame of mind of rebellion from their parents, so maybe Doom is preferable?

I also note how Doom keeps saying how much better he is than Reed. In the last fight at Secret Wars #9, Doom admitted Reed would make a better world than Battleworld that Doom cobbled together as a terrorist camp. Now, in ANAD, Doom still has the gall to insist he is better than Reed, in a world Reed created. Doom has been living a comfortable, challenging life in the ANAD, helping people. I have to wonder why Doom needs to justify himself to Reed like this, goading Richards at every occasion, when Victor is enjoying his new disposition as a hero, a fact Reed had constructed for Doom to operate in? Where is the gratitude?