X-Men/Fantastic Four #3 Discussion

[spirit2011]

I came back here to throw this to the Doom supporters. Mutants were trying to escape from Latveria to Krakoa and they were brought to Doom Island. It is also hinted that not everyone survived that and these little twos look terrorized. When Magneto told them that they should not fear Doom they were scared of his reaction. So yes, the Krakoans were right to at least investigate.

Attachment 94898

She says their home is Latveria and not krakoa

[Iron Maiden]

"Flatscans" really? You don't think they'd warrant good will by resurrecting people like the guards Sabretooth killed? What they're doing is giving themselves immortality, they can't die with with that process. You're saying human life is worth less than mutant life.

I have to laugh at the hypocrisy of an X-Men fan who uses that term. On the other issue, that resurrecting thing can be a bit disturbing except when one thinks that very, very few superheroes or villains for that matter stay dead in comics

[Ferro]

"Flatscans" really? You don't think they'd warrant good will by resurrecting people like the guards Sabretooth killed? What they're doing is giving themselves immortality, they can't die with with that process. You're saying human life is worth less than mutant life.

Warrant good will has gotten them nothing when they were prissy super heroes, why should they give 2 shits when they already punished sabertooth?
if humans want to have a ressurection process they better start peskering stark or reed for that tech, mutants are done being the red cross, now you want something you give something in return and thank goodness they stoped being idiots.

[zinderel]

Some of you falling for the immensly clear writer bias will never stop being ridiculous to me because most of you will turn around to defend every hero for their apathy of mutants with "its difrent editorials", "its bad writting"
sush.
doom is allowed BY THE WRITER to seem righteous by not having xavier talk back with the thousands possible ways to tell victor hes full off it, but instead the page cuts, as usual in this terrible mini.

Also humans don't even allow mutants to work at mcdonnalds, why in god's name would they use the ressurection protocols on humans???? like... that is literaly the dumbest idea I can imagine and the humans don't deserve anything from them.
Mutants were mother theresas for decades and got zilch, screw them.

Exactly. 616 Humanity has been proven - over and over - to be hot, stupid, racist, sexist, xenophobic, lazy, genocide-promoting/accepting garbage WORTHY of being replaced by...literally anyone.

“But what about past human allies?!?!”

A tiny portion of humanity that supports mutants doesn’t make up for the vast majority either actively seeking or complacently accepting and looking the other way from violent genocidal attacks on children. If 99% of all white people supported the eradication of anyone with more melanin than a native Swede, but 12 white people took a principled stand against that horror while the rest either cheered it on or changed the channel to watch Survivor? That would in no way redeem the majority.

There has not been a story in the last twenty years - X-related or otherwise (take a look at Captain Marvel’s recent story where the entire bigoted-ass planet turned on her overnight in favor an obvious shady usurper with TERRIBLE fashion sense...) where the 616 humans haven’t either CAUSED major problems or complacently accepted the manipulation of shady people in favor of stripping people of basic rights, wiping out entire races of people, turning on proven heroes on a whim, or being lazy and shallow and corrupt in every OTHER possible way.

Marvel writers clearly have a dim view of humanity in general, and it shows.

BUT SURE.

“Let’s share the existence and relevant details of our resurrection protocols with the oppressor and make sure to bow and scrape and genuflect properly and with all deference to our generous and kind (and handsome!) human masters. And when they demand that mutants resurrect their dead grandmas, or ELSE? Well, if we just do as they tell us and resurrect their dead grandmas before wasting a resurrection on one of the 16 million people murdered on Genosha by technology humanity developed to kill us all, maybe we won’t get another visit from Sentinels or Purifier or Xeno or Friends of Humanity, or The Right, or the Sapien League, or the US Government, or the Russian government or whatever new pro-genocide organization they’ve created/elevated this week!”

[Ferro]

Exactly. 616 Humanity has been proven - over and over - to be hot, stupid, racist, sexist, xenophobic, lazy, genocide-accepting garbage WORTHY of being replaced by...literally anyone. There has not been a story in the last twenty years - X-related or otherwise (take a look at Captain Marvel’s recent story where the entire planet turned on her overnight for an obvious shady usurper...) where the 616 humans haven’t either CAUSED major problems or complacently accepted the manipulation of shady people in favor of stripping people of basic rights, wiping out entire races of people, turning on proven heroes on a whim, or being lazy and shallow and corrupt in every OTHER possible way.

Marvel writers clearly have a dim view of humanity in general, and it shows. BUT SURE. “Let’s share the existence of resurrection protocols with the oppressor and nod happily and with proper deference to our masters. And when they demand that mutants resurrect their dead grandmas, or ELSE, we can do as they tell us and maybe not get a visit from Sentinels or Purifier or Xeno or Friends of Humanity, or The Right, or the Sapien League, or the US Government, or the Russian government or whatever new pro-genocide organization they’ve created/elevated this week!”

it's such a self destructive sugestion and for what?? to seem heroic???? because none of the other heroes do any meaningfull changes with all their money and science yet somehow the nation that had to desperatly come up with every countermeasure and solution to apease the world, colaborate with the worst of the worst because the stakes are THAT dire, has to sacrifice itself ...for what?
The X-men dont even get basic respect from others and they are the pinacle of heroism. its a dead end that no sane person would continue to follow, especially when you have a responsibility to other much less priveldged and vulnerable mutants.

[Lucyinthesky]

I have to laugh at the hypocrisy of an X-Men fan who uses that term. On the other issue, that resurrecting thing can be a bit disturbing except when one thinks that very, very few superheroes or villains for that matter stay dead in comics

I don´t put much stock on fictional insults but yes, flatscan has commonly be akin to mutie in the Marvel universe but I don´t see reason to take that situation over the rw.

The resurrection is disturbing but it´s also a work in progress the X-Factor title is supposed to deal with knowning a little more about that, I for one would like to know how they manage the soul concept which actually exist on the MU, even reincarnation happens sometimes, so I would like to know Hickman´s take on that.

[Gray Lensman]

Some of you falling for the immensly clear writer bias will never stop being ridiculous to me because most of you will turn around to defend every hero for their apathy of mutants with "its difrent editorials", "its bad writting"
sush.
doom is allowed BY THE WRITER to seem righteous by not having xavier talk back with the thousands possible ways to tell victor hes full off it, but instead the page cuts, as usual in this terrible mini.

Also humans don't even allow mutants to work at mcdonnalds, why in god's name would they use the ressurection protocols on humans???? like... that is literaly the dumbest idea I can imagine and the humans don't deserve anything from them.
Mutants were mother theresas for decades and got zilch, screw them.

Anyone who thinks that DOOM, the guy who actually did kidnap people (as opposed to headcanon kidnapping) and is using hostagebots is the righteous one is either too stupid or too biased to deal with.

[Ferro]

Anyone who thinks that DOOM, the guy who actually did kidnap people (as opposed to headcanon kidnapping) and is using hostagebots is the righteous one is either too stupid or too biased to deal with.

im going to remember the next time the "other heroes cant help cause writting" comes up

[Journey]

It's not even real resurrection their better off keeping it to themselves. The whole process would unnerve the common person, not to mention the religious ones.

[zinderel]

it's such a self destructive sugestion and for what?? to seem heroic???? because none of the other heroes do any meaningfull changes with all their money and science yet somehow the nation that had to desperatly come up with every countermeasure and solution to apease the world, colaborate with the worst of the worst because the stakes are THAT dire, has to sacrifice itself ...for what?
The X-men dont even get basic respect from others and they are the pinacle of heroism. its a dead end that no sane person would continue to follow, especially when you have a responsibility to other much less priveldged and vulnerable mutants.

Right?! How many brilliant ‘human’ heroes have used cloning, cybernetics, parallel reality pulls, deals with gods, etc to come back from the dead and kept that from humanity at large? But there’s no demands that they provide their solution to everyone else.

Reed Richards has absolutely discovered a source of/means of creating limitless energy, but hoards it. What a bigot. What about the REST of humanity, Reed?!?!

Black Panther hoards his magic flowers and rocks from non-Wakandans. What a racist.

Tony Stark has perfected cloning and nanotechnology, but he doesn’t share it. What a fascist.

Thor is a white male from a race so technologically advanced that they have cracked immortality, super strength and durability, and so on, and uses that to get people to worship him. What a cult leader.

[Iron Maiden]

I don´t put much stock on fictional insults but yes, flatscan has commonly be akin to mutie in the Marvel universe but I don´t see reason to take that situation over the rw.

The resurrection is disturbing but it´s also a work in progress the X-Factor title is supposed to deal with knowning a little more about that, I for one would like to know how they manage the soul concept which actually exist on the MU, even reincarnation happens sometimes, so I would like to know Hickman´s take on that.

Yes, the resurrections does take you into some issues dealing with religious beliefs. The comic book world usually skirts around religious beliefs. Most famously Doctor Doom and Doctor Strange were able to achieve the redemption of Cynthia Von Doom's soul. But was it redemption in the Biblical sense or in the superhero sense of rescuing her from Mephisto's realm? It is left to the reader to decide. What was that entity that we saw in Infamous Iron Man? Was in her soul or was it a creation of Mephisto's...probably the latter. It was kind of weird and funny that Ben thought she looked hot.

[zinderel]

Calling 616 humanity “flatscans” is just shorthand. It’s easier to write than “humanity, the vast majority of which is blatantly and proudly lazy, sexist, racist, xenophobic, ignorant, genocidal, greedy, demanding, violent a******s”...

[Journey]

Yes, the resurrections does take you into some issues dealing with religious beliefs. The comic book world usually skirts around religious beliefs. Most famously Doctor Doom and Doctor Strange were able to achieve the redemption of Cynthia Von Doom's soul. But was it redemption in the Biblical sense or in the superhero sense of rescuing her from Mephisto's realm? It is left to the reader to decide. What was that entity that we saw in Infamous Iron Man? Was in her soul or was it a creation of Mephisto's...probably the latter. It was kind of weird and funny that Ben thought she looked hot.

Heaven and Hell are established in Marvel so the whole situation is already messy, the fact Kurt of all people just seems to take the whole process in stride even though he's been to heaven surprised me.

[Zelena]

She says their home is Latveria and not krakoa

That is interesting to show that you're not defined by just one identity, and it's normal to be conflicted about this.

Once a Scottish citizen said to me she was saddened by the Brexit thing, that all her identities, European, British, Scottish cohabited harmoniously so far and she never thought she would need to choose.

I'm irritated by the presumption of Krakoans: they only see mutants as potential citizens.

[Iron Maiden]

Right?! How many brilliant ‘human’ heroes have used cloning, cybernetics, parallel reality pulls, deals with gods, etc to come back from the dead and kept that from humanity at large? But there’s no demands that they provide their solution to everyone else.

Reed Richards has absolutely discovered a source of/means of creating limitless energy, but hoards it. What a bigot. What about the REST of humanity, Reed?!?!

Black Panther hoards his magic flowers and rocks from non-Wakandans. What a racist.

Tony Stark has perfected cloning and nanotechnology, but he doesn’t share it. What a fascist.

Thor is a white male from a race so technologically advanced that they have cracked immortality, super strength and durability, and so on, and uses that to get people to worship him. What a cult leader.

This is an argument that can be applied across the board for sure but I recall that this was addressed in a Fantastic Four issue. Reed could probably crash the economy with some of his science and make factories, etc obsolete so that's they way they get around that. As for Stark, you know he's always been a government contractor like his father Howard, who helped in the war effort as we saw in Capt. America The First Avenger. So his contribution can be considered protecting the citizens of the free world.