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  1. #271
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    Mutant tip 101 when fighting vs Doom make sure you bring Hijack or Trinary to control doom bots
    I don't think they are tech-based given what went down in the recent issue, also you would also have to factor in his magic which lets him go toe to toe with the likes of Strange and Mephisto.

  2. #272
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    They have no reason to care, at all, I know I wouldn't, id just mind my business and get ready to move the island to mars once it was time to create a larger distance

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    history of the marvel universe calls wanda a mutant btw
    they count her as a mutant because in that moment of her history she was believed to be a mutant. The retcon never eliminated her past history with the mutants
    Last edited by hulkling; 03-26-2020 at 07:48 PM.

  4. #274
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    No, not Wolverine. That whole delegation from Krakoa.

    It comes to a point where even Doom can give them a Lesson into toning down their arrogance and hypocrisy. Doom! Of all people!
    How far Xavier and his cohorte have Fallen...

    2/5

    A better read for me than issue #2, that's for sure.
    The Kraked are still morally unsalvageable though and I Don't expect issue #4 to manage in saving them from that moral disgrace. A shame.
    Does it matter in the end though? I mean in the grand scheme of things how does this series help or hinder the overall story that Hickman is telling?

  5. #275
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metal Sphere View Post
    Oh yeah, when it was teased super hard that OG Vulcan might still be alive I knew we were going to get super rough GoT style court antics.

    Anyways, about this issue? Better than the first two, but still not great. That page with Doom tearing down Charles would've been better if Charles were allowed a retort so ideas could get explored more. Doom is a hypocrite but his point is true, not all Krakoans need diplomatic immunity and the current setup does come across as clearly valuing mutant-anything above humans. But, this is something Hickman himself will cover properly later on.

    I just hope the last issue is better, so this can end on an "Okay" note. I don't want these two teams on bad terms. The X-Men have plenty of enemies as is, and the superhero v superhero thing is dull.
    My money is the use of the trope "well will unite our forces to combat this threat and leave as friends"...which, to be honest, and this is just my feelings on it, I don' want Hero V Hero at the end but I don't want them leaving as friends either. Let Baby Frankie have his powers again so he can stop whining, have him make the choice of family or species, have Sue tell Magneto where he can shove it one more time because he deserves it, have Reed tell Xavier he doesn't trust him and let the other characters do whatever and just end the damn thing.

  6. #276
    ☁ϟ Rosa Snarks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    Then Iíd say they need to do a better job of showing it. Prime rule of visual storytelling: Show, donít tell. Donít TELL me that most humans are cool with/support mutants right to live. SHOW me. What we are SHOWN is that humans hate and fear mutants and work SUPER HARD to defy all known laws of physics and decency to eradicate them, no matter what the X-Men did or tried. So theyíve stopped trying to make humans happy and are focusing on making their own people safe and happy, and that makes them Ďantagonistsí or Ďfascist cult membersí. If Marvel doesnít want us thinking the worst of 616 Humanity, then they need to stop being so fickle and crappy to the heroes DEMONSTRABLY SAVING THEIR COLLECTIVE BACON on the reg. Show us a GRATEFUL humanity once in a while. Or just...not the WORST examples of human nature, repeatedly. Stop making humanity so awful. We get enough of that in the real world. Give us something uplifting to aspire and escape to. Donít mirror the WORST parts of the real world in making the 616 Ďthe world outside your windowí.

    Which brings me to your earlier point: Itís not the bitterness in comics that is the problem. The problem is what that bitterness reflects. Itís not that Iím Ďvestedí in the comics. Itís that the bitterness in the fandom and the general s*****ness of mankind on display in America right now is so clearly reflected in the presentation of humanity in comics, and itís impossible to miss, for me.

    Right now, the idea of an oppressed minority uniting and coming together to build a nation for themselves - mistakes and all - has relevance and meaning for a lot of people. Just like seeing Captain America go after the German American Bund and war profiteers when he wasnít allowed to go after Nazis had relevance and meaning for a lot of people, then. Seeing Krakoa I ironically called some of the things it gets called in and out of universe before it even really has had a chance to show us what it is? That pisses some folks - myself included - off, and makes us wonder what comics the rest of you have been reading that your perspectives are SO different. It makes people wonder how people might feel if ACTUAL minorities stepped up and united and said Ďno moreí. It speaks to the concept of privilege. It reflects the way people spoke about REAL minorities rising up and not accepting scraps or targeted violence anymore. It reflects poorly on the REAL world.

    I enjoy the escapism of beautiful people in tights fighting giant men in purple skirts as much as anyone! Iím just not blind to the problematic way a LOT of people, real and fictional, are reacting to this era of mutant history, ESPECIALLY given the well known metaphor mutants have represented since their inception.
    Just here to applaud this post.
    Faves: Ororo Munroe♥ Maxima Of Almerac♥ Donna Troy♥ Mari Jiwe McCabe♥ Jean Grey♥ Cyclops♥ Monet♥ Wanda Maximoff♥ Jubilee♥
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  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    Then Iíd say they need to do a better job of showing it. Prime rule of visual storytelling: Show, donít tell. Donít TELL me that most humans are cool with/support mutants right to live. SHOW me. What we are SHOWN is that humans hate and fear mutants and work SUPER HARD to defy all known laws of physics and decency to eradicate them, no matter what the X-Men did or tried. So theyíve stopped trying to make humans happy and are focusing on making their own people safe and happy, and that makes them Ďantagonistsí or Ďfascist cult membersí. If Marvel doesnít want us thinking the worst of 616 Humanity, then they need to stop being so fickle and crappy to the heroes DEMONSTRABLY SAVING THEIR COLLECTIVE BACON on the reg. Show us a GRATEFUL humanity once in a while. Or just...not the WORST examples of human nature, repeatedly. Stop making humanity so awful. We get enough of that in the real world. Give us something uplifting to aspire and escape to. Donít mirror the WORST parts of the real world in making the 616 Ďthe world outside your windowí.
    I agree Marvel needs do more of the por mutants side in all its lines, but you're omitting the fact that not every human outside the X-line is a mutant bigot. Mutants and mutant bigotry isn't a subject which comes up in most titles not because they don't have opinions on it but because the whole Marvel universe has more themes to explore in their corners then mutantkind's struggles. Which comes out not because the characters are apathetic to the mutant cause, its due to other concerns in the creative and marketing process.

    And it's comics. Drama is exaggerated otherwise it'd get boring, that's inherent to the super-hero genre.

    Which brings me to your earlier point: Itís not the bitterness in comics that is the problem. The problem is what that bitterness reflects. Itís not that Iím Ďvestedí in the comics. Itís that the bitterness in the fandom and the general s*****ness of mankind on display in America right now is so clearly reflected in the presentation of humanity in comics, and itís impossible to miss, for me.
    Comics and fandom do reflect what's going on in America, however, they're not 1=1. That something is a metaphor for something isn't always an example that you're meant to not question it or that it's right all the time. X-fandom has been bitter since forever, too.

    Right now, the idea of an oppressed minority uniting and coming together to build a nation for themselves - mistakes and all - has relevance and meaning for a lot of people. Just like seeing Captain America go after the German American Bund and war profiteers when he wasnít allowed to go after Nazis had relevance and meaning for a lot of people, then. Seeing Krakoa I ironically called some of the things it gets called in and out of universe before it even really has had a chance to show us what it is? That pisses some folks - myself included - off, and makes us wonder what comics the rest of you have been reading that your perspectives are SO different. It makes people wonder how people might feel if ACTUAL minorities stepped up and united and said Ďno moreí. It speaks to the concept of privilege. It reflects the way people spoke about REAL minorities rising up and not accepting scraps or targeted violence anymore. It reflects poorly on the REAL world.
    Which is why I think Hickman went with this depiction to be relevant today. We've had numerous comics to get the gist of Krakoa and various characters actions and opinions on the current status quo, it's far from a blank slate. Someone having a different perspective is not necessarily bad, sometimes different perspectives are needed to point out flaws we missed.

    While reading comics do reflect political meanings its not a good idea to go too hard to judging people based on their reactions to super-heroes who fight super-villains. The X-men aren't real minorities and had they been real none of us would be able to join them on Krakoa. Don't assume because we have issues with Krakoa that it's identical to what we think about minorities in the real world. Marvel isn't the real world, it's a fictional reflection of it. It's ok for people not to agree about everything, don't take it personally. It's comic books.

    I enjoy the escapism of beautiful people in tights fighting giant men in purple skirts as much as anyone! Iím just not blind to the problematic way a LOT of people, real and fictional, are reacting to this era of mutant history, ESPECIALLY given the well known metaphor mutants have represented since their inception.
    Except you're blinding yourself to the problematic aspects of that same mutant nation. It being a metaphor in fiction isn't an excuse to not ask questions in the setting or look at how things are created by the writers and editors.

  8. #278
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    Then I’d say they need to do a better job of showing it. Prime rule of visual storytelling: Show, don’t tell. Don’t TELL me that most humans are cool with/support mutants right to live. SHOW me. What we are SHOWN is that humans hate and fear mutants and work SUPER HARD to defy all known laws of physics and decency to eradicate them, no matter what the X-Men did or tried. So they’ve stopped trying to make humans happy and are focusing on making their own people safe and happy, and that makes them ‘antagonists’ or ‘fascist cult members’. If Marvel doesn’t want us thinking the worst of 616 Humanity, then they need to stop being so fickle and crappy to the heroes DEMONSTRABLY SAVING THEIR COLLECTIVE BACON on the reg. Show us a GRATEFUL humanity once in a while. Or just...not the WORST examples of human nature, repeatedly. Stop making humanity so awful. We get enough of that in the real world. Give us something uplifting to aspire and escape to. Don’t mirror the WORST parts of the real world in making the 616 ‘the world outside your window’.
    Not even just pointed towards the X-Men alone but even when it comes to company crossovers, it basically had a plot point in which it compared the citizens of the DCU and the MU in which it presented that while the DCU citizens look up to and love the heroes, the citizens of the MU are basically ungrateful bastards. Which kinda becomes a bit ironic that, they’re ungrateful in the present but give them a future like Old Man Logan and suddenly they realize what they’ve lost to the point of flocking around Thor’s hammer hoping that the heroes return from the dead like they used to.

  9. #279
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    I don't think they are tech-based given what went down in the recent issue, also you would also have to factor in his magic which lets him go toe to toe with the likes of Strange and Mephisto.
    That's why they turn up with Selene

  10. #280
    Fantastic Member Stormultt Divine's Avatar
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    There hasn't been any valid arguments against the x-men, mutants or Krakoa since HoXPoX, history speaks soundly for what is happening.

    They have every right.

  11. #281
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    Does it matter in the end though? I mean in the grand scheme of things how does this series help or hinder the overall story that Hickman is telling?
    It matters because they are the X-Men, they are not supposed to be this morally-corrupted crowd. We'd expect that from the Acolytes or the Brotherhood - not from the X-Men.
    Trying to lure away Franklin - a minor! - from his parents is disgusting.
    Trying to sell their ideology to him is also disgusting.
    A top to Bottom mistake you wouldn't expect from the likes of Xavier and co.
    Franklin wasn't in danger with his family.
    He wasn't mistreated, in fact he was cared for and loved and supported in every possible way by his parents.
    He's the epitome of privileged actually.
    The X-Men had no Reason to immisce themselves into their Relationship beyond the very selfish, very obvious powergrab attempt to add another Omega-level mutant to their population.
    Greedyness is what drove them, and it's not supposed to be what drives them to action, compassion is…

    If they weren't involved with the direction Krakoa is currently taking, no one would be questionning what's happening on that island, but unfortunately they are actively involved in the direction Krakoa is currently taking, so they face scrutiny as a result.
    Crucible, Hellions, trying to lure Franklin away from his family here…
    Maybe Hickman is narrating the story of their moral downfall, in which case this story drives the point home perfectly. If not? Then it's a blow to whatever he's trying to tell at this point.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

  12. #282

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    The characterization really took me out of this issue.

  13. #283
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    YWn. Not this tired ol ďthose muties arenít superior!!!Ē argument. Doom knows damn well why Krakoa exists but goes for cheap blows for his ego. Itís why heís jealous of the advances that Krakoa made and was looking for any reason to go after them without being blamed for throwing the first punch. Mutants are literally the next step in evolution and Krakoa isnít just Magneto. His sentiment is how he views his species and he isnít even exactly wrong, mutants are given their powers to survive humanity and evolve the planet. Thatís why theyíre there.
    That's already been disproved. There's never just one true path to the future or futures as we've seen. The current iteration of the multiverse exists only because of 4 humans who are not mutants.... Doom for pursuing a different line of investigation leading to the cause of the incursions and the grand experiment of the Beyonders to erase everything. Doom employed the Mad Thinker to trace back the path of the Map Makers that were part of the incursion over Latveria. This lead them to Owen Reece who provided the information about the Beyonders and how to defeat their plan. Reed was the one that took over after Doom was defeated and was once again Owen Reece was part of the process to help direct Franklin's Omega mutant powers to recreate the multiverse.

  14. #284
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    That's already been disproved. There's never just one true path to the future or futures as we've seen. The current iteration of the multiverse exists only because of 4 humans who are not mutants.... Doom for pursuing a different line of investigation leading to the cause of the incursions and the grand experiment of the Beyonders to erase everything. Doom employed the Mad Thinker to trace back the path of the Map Makers that were part of the incursion over Latveria. This lead them to Owen Reece who provided the information about the Beyonders and how to defeat their plan. Reed was the one that took over after Doom was defeated and was once again Owen Reece was part of the process to help direct Franklin's Omega mutant powers to recreate the multiverse.
    And the reason those same humans didn’t lose their future to the homo novissima is because Moira saved them. Anyways, here’s scans from POX 6 that not only show mutants are the next step in evolution, but there is are nine definitive futures that happened before getting reset.




    I love Powers of X shutting down arguments.

  15. #285
    Proud Krakoan Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    And the reason those same humans didn’t lose their future to the homo novissima is because Moira saved them. Anyways, here’s scans from POX 6 that not only show mutants are the next step in evolution, but there is are nine definitive futures that happened before getting reset.

    I love Powers of X shutting down arguments.
    I'll be re-reading over the weekend. Thank you for amplifying my excitement.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

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