X-Men/Fantastic Four #3 Discussion

[JB]

The Krakoa hate is amazing.

I appreciate that the majority offer legitimate criticism of Krakoa, but yeesh, some just hate and that's not healthy.

I don't care much for the FF but I would never go over to their board to voice that.

[zinderel]

Thoughts:

- As was predicted, no mutant got to respond to accusations and insults - again - in order to prop up the F4 and Doom. Doom and the rest got to make their comments and snide commentary and s***ty Karen behavior...no mutant got to respond. At least, not on panel...
- Everything that happened felt barely connected. Thing A happens, then Thing B happens, then Thing C happens, but there is no real...narrative cohesion...?
- The teaming up was nice, but it comes way too late and just seems...forced? “You just attacked one of our leaders and we shot down your plane/You just shot down our plane after we wrongly accused you of kidnapping and assaulted one of your leaders. Let’s team up and...do...something...? Because Doom?”
- Wolverine stabbing indiscriminately bugged me - I cant stand Wolverine, tho - but I realize that he thought that he was attacking DoomBots. Apparently his super senses weren’t working and he couldn’t smell or hear that the ‘bots’ were people in armor, with sweat and heartbeats and breathing...

Not impressed...

[Tycon]

Sentinels can't be a moral event horizon when one of the leaders of Krakoa has used them on other groups. They can't just be a terrible evil when it happens to mutants, but OK when mutants do it to other people. Honestly, at this point it would be weirder if every nation DIDN'T have Sentinels in case war breaks out with Krakoa.

Yes it can. Sentinels were created to police and murder mutants. Making a specific weapon for the destruction of a specific people is beyond disgusting, it’s why there’s always visceral reactions when they show up. They obviously mean something and it isn’t the same if an oppressing party (ex. humans) use it against the oppressed (ex. mutants) as the case was with Shaw (even though it was still gross that he did so). I feel like a good Power Dynamics 101 class would get rid a lot of these arguments.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Yes it can. Sentinels were created to police and murder mutants. Making a specific weapon for the destruction of a specific people is beyond disgusting, it’s why there’s always visceral reactions when they show up. They obviously mean something and it isn’t the same if an oppressing party (ex. humans) use it against the oppressed (ex. mutants) as the case was with Shaw (even though it was still gross that he did so). I feel like a good Power Dynamics 101 class would get rid a lot of these arguments.

Agains regular mutants, I can agree with. What about mutants know for wanting to enslave or destroy humanity, like Magneto and Apocalypse? They have the power to destroy nations.

[JB]

*speaking of Logan, I wonder if someone will start the issue #2 thread*

[Rosa Snarks]

sue is gonna have an entire monologue to channel toni collete in hereditary and become the white crown karen

lmfao please

[Tycon]

Agains regular mutants, I can agree with. What about mutants know for wanting to enslave or destroy humanity, like Magneto and Apocalypse? They have the power to destroy nations.

I don’t think they’re very useful against those powerhouses anyway. For all the superpowered beings, they should have teams ready in case moves are made. Kind of like during New 52 when no one trusted the Justice League so the US gov made a “Justice League of America” to counter them in case they went awol.

[pkingdom]

Yes it can. Sentinels were created to police and murder mutants. Making a specific weapon for the destruction of a specific people is beyond disgusting, it’s why there’s always visceral reactions when they show up. They obviously mean something and it isn’t the same if an oppressing party (ex. humans) use it against the oppressed (ex. mutants) as the case was with Shaw (even though it was still gross that he did so). I feel like a good Power Dynamics 101 class would get rid a lot of these arguments.

Power Dynamics? if you know of a thesis somewhere that talks about the power dynamics of a minority with an equal chance of being a walking wasteland or looking like a zoo animal, I'd be happy to read it. The idea of power dynamics with mutants is all over the place when you factor in superpowers.

Sentinels are terrible and evil. But that doesn't mean mutants should get a pass when they reprogram them to attack their own enemies, like Emma did to the Inhumans. For Krakoa to treat the Sentinels like an unforgivable evil when a member of their own government has used them on a DIFFERENT minority is total hypocrisy. I wasn't even talking about Shaw having a hand in financing and constructing a huge chunk of them.

[Huntsman Spider]

Yes it can. Sentinels were created to police and murder mutants. Making a specific weapon for the destruction of a specific people is beyond disgusting, it’s why there’s always visceral reactions when they show up. They obviously mean something and it isn’t the same if an oppressing party (ex. humans) use it against the oppressed (ex. mutants) as the case was with Shaw (even though it was still gross that he did so). I feel like a good Power Dynamics 101 class would get rid a lot of these arguments.

Shaw was beyond disgusting for that, but we shouldn't be surprised; as one of the chief powerhouses (financially and politically speaking) of the Hellfire Club, he's made it clear again and again that he gives no more f***s about other mutants, particularly if they're not wealthy and powerful like he and his cohorts, than he does about anybody else. Elitists like him are only about themselves, and see everyone else as at best a means to an end or at worst as obstacles to be removed.

I don’t think they’re very useful against those powerhouses anyway. For all the superpowered beings, they should have teams ready in case moves are made. Kind of like during New 52 when no one trusted the Justice League so the US gov made a “Justice League of America” to counter them in case they went awol.

Like the current Squadron Supreme of America over in the Avengers comics after the Avengers made it clear that they didn't (and wouldn't) answer to any nation's government and could choose their own leaders/chairs regardless of what the U.S. government in particular felt about it? Hell, they had Spider-Slayers and Hulkbusters for individual heroes like Spider-Man and the Hulk, and during the Civil War/Initiative era, the unit nicknamed "Capekillers" was set up to deal with any and all "rogue superhumans," mutant or not. That would be fairer and more evenhanded than just singling out mutants again and again.

[pkingdom]

For how advanced robotics are in Marvel, having specialized bots for certain teams/heroes is a no-brainer. The Sentinels are just the most obvious, and frankly, the worst looking and least effective. An average guy with a gun would be just as effective against the lamer mutants who can't ever do anything, and the larger Sentinels have an abysmal track record against any X-men with useful powers. They're honestly really badly designed for handling the actual powerful mutants, until you reach Nimrod level.

[nx01a]

I actually quite enjoyed the issue, mostly because it had so much epic DOOM! Far better than the first two.
The art was OK.
Cyclops' X-visor canon? Cool.
Seeing Beast agree/side with Doom? Such a Beast thing to do.
Von Doom Particles? LOL! Oh, Victor! Never change.
Wolverine not sensing a living person inside the Doomsuit? Tsk.
I kinda agree with Sue re: Eric. Has Mags ever really done anything good simply because it was the right thing to do? Aren't his heroic turns usually predicated on him trying to make up for his villainous past or because of traumas he's experienced or because he's concerned with solely saving mutants?

Man somebody get Doom a mic to drop and Xavier a good healer because that was one nasty burn. First Namor and now Doom. Xavier is just getting burned by all the other rulers with the whole superiority thing. Is T’Challa gonna get a shot next?

This was beautiful, and I agree with every word.
xf1.jpg

And to counter a point raised earlier... Reed never negated Franklin's powers. He merely masked Franklin registering as a mutant to sensors including the Krakoan gate.

[Huntsman Spider]

I actually quite enjoyed the issue, mostly because it had so much epic DOOM! Far better than the first two.
The art was OK.
Cyclops' X-visor canon? Cool.
Seeing Beast agree/side with Doom? Such a Beast thing to do.
Von Doom Particles? LOL! Oh, Victor! Never change.
Wolverine not sensing a living person inside the Doomsuit? Tsk.
I kinda agree with Sue re: Eric. Has Mags ever really done anything good simply because it was the right thing to do? Aren't his heroic turns usually predicated on him trying to make up for his villainous past or because of traumas he's experienced or because he's concerned with solely saving mutants?
This was beautiful, and I agree with every word.
xf1.jpg

And to counter a point raised earlier... Reed never negated Franklin's powers. He merely masked Franklin registering as a mutant to sensors including the Krakoan gate.

It might also explain in retrospect why Sentinels never knocked on the Fantastic Four's door trying to get at Franklin for being a mutant. That aside, that Sue was talking to Magneto does alleviate the sting somewhat, so consider my earlier posting about that comment taken back. As for Doom . . . well, Doom's a big old hypocrite who postures like he's superior when damn near everything he's done and become is rooted in petty jealousy that Reed Richards is even slightly smarter than him. Not taking that one back.

[Journey]

well King T’Challa has a little more common sense than Victor. He actually seems to understand why Krakoa exists instead of defaulting to the very lazy “you think you’re better than me!!!”

When did storm and panther get back together? I thought he dropped her?

[Huntsman Spider]

When did storm and panther get back together? I thought he dropped her?

He did, but Ta-Nehisi Coates brought them back together in Season 2 of his Black Panther run, collected as "Avengers of the New World."

[Havok83]

When did storm and panther get back together? I thought he dropped her?

2 and a half years ago. It was referenced in X-men Red