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  1. #31
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Most writers' characterization of Batman from the 90s on led me to actively dislike him for several years until Grant Morrison came around and reminded me of how cool the character was when he's not being written like the world's most dickish know-it-all. Unfortunately, for too many writers, that interpretation of Batman has become so ingrained that they don't know how to write him any other way but as the insufferable protagonist Cosplay Misery Porn.

  2. #32
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    Some of Batman's acts might be considered as dickish... lol but you must put yourself in Batman's shoes, or more like boots lol He has hard time connecting with people, he doesn't want to owe anybody 'cause people come and go... just like his parents went... :/ if he gets dependent on them, get used to them, it would be alot of pain when they go. He just try to protect himself from feeling the same pain when he lost his parents... that might look very dickish in some ways he responded but he's damaged like this in some interparitations. I used to love this deep suffering of Batman when i was younger and emo, it was my bread and butter... lol It feels nostalgic when they write him like this now, that's why i still kind of like it, but it's too emo, i have to admit. lol
    Last edited by Gurz; 03-27-2020 at 03:48 AM.

  3. #33
    Incredible Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
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    Pretty much every Batman story Frank Miller has written after TDKR/Year One.

    Lobdells massacre of Tim, Cass, and Bart in New52.
    Pulls: Batman, Detective Comics, and Young Justice.
    My runs: Batman #260- and Detective #444-, every issue since I was born.

  4. #34
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    I wasn't a fan of how Johns handled the Young Justice cast in his Teen Titans run. It set the stage for the future character derailments that happened.

  5. #35
    Fantastic Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    Harley Quinn getting off scot free in mainstream continuity, all too often. There was a Batgirl comic in which she shows up because Waller gave her a "furlough day." You'd think that this would make no sense at all, because she's a murderous sociopath and might try to hurt someone. And, in fact, she exposes some douche techbro - and everyone around him - to some bioengineered virus. (Even less funny today.) And makes Batgirl and her friends go on a hunt for the cure before it kills him (and everyone).

    Ad at the end, Batgirl and her friends act like it was just a fun time - "Let's do this again next year!" (I think it was a Christmas issue.) And they let Harley wander off, looking all cute and mischievous, with Batgirl making an offhand comment that she'll check with Waller later to make sure Harley got back.

    And if she didn't? And if she killed someone in the meantime? Or if Waller had never let her out to begin with, and she somehow escaped and disabled her brain bomb? (Which makes more sense than "furlough.") And I've heard some people say, "Oh, it probably wasn't really a deadly virus at all!" But that's just readers letting her off the hook the same way Batgirl does - there's nothing in the story to indicate it, and Batgirl never checks.

    What I really don't like about Harley is that - because she's such a marketing success outside the narrative setting of the DCU - the superheroes inside the DCU do not treat her as the dangerous villain she is. Possibly fatal bioterrorism is so cute, y'all! She has a plot distortion field that makes some of my favorite heroes into idiots.
    Yeah, after Injustice soured me on her I finally noticed how little actual repercussions or consequences she faces in most stories for being a willing and proud associate of The Joker and how little any of the actual heroes treat her as such.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    What I really don't like about Harley is that - because she's such a marketing success outside the narrative setting of the DCU - the superheroes inside the DCU do not treat her as the dangerous villain she is. Possibly fatal bioterrorism is so cute, y'all! She has a plot distortion field that makes some of my favorite heroes into idiots.
    This happens way too frequently with popular villains. Team ups with the heroes, respect from the heroes, even sometimes friendship. And they just "forget" all the bad things that villain did. At least sometimes they fade from popularity later and heroes stop acting idiotic. I don't mind villains occasionally turning good (if it makes sense, and if they are held accountable for having injured or killed people). I certainly don't mind fans loving villains. I do mind heroes acting like villains aren't villains because the fans love them.

  7. #37
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurz View Post
    Some of Batman's acts might be considered as dickish... lol but you must put yourself in Batman's shoes, or more like boots lol He has hard time connecting with people, he doesn't want to owe anybody 'cause people come and go... just like his parents went... :/ if he gets dependent on them, get used to them, it would be alot of pain when they go. He just try to protect himself from feeling the same pain when he lost his parents... that might look very dickish in some ways he responded but he's damaged like this in some interparitations. I used to love this deep suffering of Batman when i was younger and emo, it was my bread and butter... lol It feels nostalgic when they write him like this now, that's why i still kind of like it, but it's too emo, i have to admit. lol
    Yeah, I understand the reasoning behind Batman's abrasive and dickish personality, but that's just not a character that I have much interest in reading about on a regular basis. It worked perfectly for Frank Miller's version, who were meant to represent the end and beginning of his time as Batman. But, man, it's an utter drag to read about month after month. Even Morrison said he found Batman to be a bit of a drag to write after a while. I much prefer a less self-serious Batman like what we got in the wonderful Batman Universe. That's a Batman I'd like to follow.

    Granted, I respect those that prefer the damaged emo manchild version. Hell, I even enjoy that version on occasion, especially in a group setting when there's other characters around who can relentlessly tease him for being so pretentious

    Ollie calling Batman a nerd made my week.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Yeah, I understand the reasoning behind Batman's abrasive and dickish personality, but that's just not a character that I have much interest in reading about on a regular basis. It worked perfectly for Frank Miller's version, who were meant to represent the end and beginning of his time as Batman. But, man, it's an utter drag to read about month after month. Even Morrison said he found Batman to be a bit of a drag to write after a while. I much prefer a less self-serious Batman like what we got in the wonderful Batman Universe. That's a Batman I'd like to follow.

    Granted, I respect those that prefer the damaged emo manchild version. Hell, I even enjoy that version on occasion, especially in a group setting when there's other characters around who can relentlessly tease him for being so pretentious

    Ollie calling Batman a nerd made my week.

    Morrison and you are minority... I mean, do i need to remind you the Batman sales numbers and Superman sales numbers ? Superman can't even sell like Batman in his wildest dream. People love that damaged Batman, hell even the all entire animated series universe of Paul Dini, Bruce Timm, Alan Brunett built around that Batman. That Batman is my childhood. Frank Miller knows how to make a character complex... And his influance is above anything when it comes to Batman.

    Miller realised it's kind of emo so he made a different Batman in All Star Batman anyway... a ruthless evil guy who enjoyes being Batman but that didn't catch, actually quite the opposite. lol Damaged Batman is something special that grabs the character from his core. Even if when you grow up, you found it overly melodramatic at some point... There is nothing better in Super hero comics.


    I love your chritopher Reeve Superman avatar btw... He's the one true Superman.
    Last edited by Gurz; 03-27-2020 at 08:19 AM.

  9. #39
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    The first thought that came to mind was New 52 Supergirl and Superboy...they both seemed like psychopaths.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurz View Post
    Morrison and you are minority... I mean, do i need to remind you the Batman sales numbers and Superman sales numbers ? Superman can't even sell like Batman in his wildest dream. People love that damaged Batman, hell even the all entire animated series universe of Paul Dini, Bruce Timm, Alan Brunett built around that Batman. That Batman is my childhood. Frank Miller knows how to make a character complex... And his influance is above anything when it comes to Batman.

    Miller realised it's kind of emo so he made a different Batman in All Star Batman anyway... a ruthless evil guy who enjoyes being Batman but that didn't catch, actually quite the opposite. lol Damaged Batman is something special that grabs the character from his core. Even if when you grow up, you found it overly melodramatic at some point... There is nothing better in Super hero comics.


    I love your chritopher Reeve Superman avatar btw... He's the one true Superman.
    DCAU Batman is my childhood too, but it honestly owes as much to the 70s Batman as it does to Miller. Especially early BTAS. Many comics from that era, particularly Joker ones, are adapted. it's why I have trouble reading most Batman comics from the 90s and beyond, he actually doesn't remind me of the cartoon version and is way more of a douche. I kind of have to echo Bored in that he's just not interesting to read about, because he's actually had a lot of the nuance and personality stripped away from him. I actually think he's less complex post-Miller than more.

    Unfortunately, edgy "badass" douchebags sell for comic nerds, so it reinforces that we're stuck with a sucky Batman and Superman doesn't appeal to them.

  11. #41
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    BTAS Batman was good....but then Justice League Batman was awful.

    I'd still go with comic Batman any day, way more range of emotions, more interesting dialogue, more interesting gadgets, more lore and history to be explored. I felt in the cartoons and those Arkham games Batman had just one blank emotion on his face most of the time....like wtf is up with that?

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Most writers' characterization of Batman from the 90s on led me to actively dislike him for several years until Grant Morrison came around and reminded me of how cool the character was when he's not being written like the world's most dickish know-it-all. Unfortunately, for too many writers, that interpretation of Batman has become so ingrained that they don't know how to write him any other way but as the insufferable protagonist Cosplay Misery Porn.
    I agree, I'm so tired of Batman being a huge a-hole and acting superior to all.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Most writers' characterization of Batman from the 90s on led me to actively dislike him for several years until Grant Morrison came around and reminded me of how cool the character was when he's not being written like the world's most dickish know-it-all. Unfortunately, for too many writers, that interpretation of Batman has become so ingrained that they don't know how to write him any other way but as the insufferable protagonist Cosplay Misery Porn.
    My favorite Dark Knight is from the Bronze age so I feel you, dude. My girlfriend put it best.

    "I feel as if the Batman I like is pretty much not the one everyone else does."

    I actively hate the modern take on Batman. It goes all back to DKR. Some writers can make him work, but I lose interest very easily when he just manifests some billion dollar gizmo because "hey, he's rich" or he does some Batgod crap. I miss when he was a detective with a cool car and specific arsenal of gadgets and was required to be clever to make it all work.

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I miss when he was a detective with a cool car and specific arsenal of gadgets and was required to be clever to make it all work.
    Preach! Bruce Wayne was an extremely intelligent man who focused his studies on detective work, and was the best at it in the world. He was pretty good at a lot of other things.

    Now? He's so good at everything I've lost track. He's busy designing cloning technology and neuro-computer advancements to download himself into the next Batman. He's one of the creators of Brother Eye. He induced an alternate personality in himself to emerge at a key time. Detective work? Who's got time?

    There was this moment in The New 52 Earth-2 where the Batman of that world reassured the Wonder Woman of that world that he had his supercomputers searching for her lost daughter. And I thought, "Supercomputers? How about you actually do some detective work, Gotham Gumshoe?" And, although it was a parallel world, and it's about two reboots ago, that was the moment when my interest in the current-day conception of what a Batman is plummeted. And hasn't recovered.
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurz View Post
    He rolled with it in the end... xD But first Scolded The Batman... That was really stupidly handeled... Bruce was all mumbling infront of him, didn't know what to say... It was so emberasing and cringy... Well, whatever, Tim's retarded father is dead now. 6 feet under dirt... He got his punishment.
    Yeah, I still side with Tim's dad. Scolding batman was stupid... but reporting him to the cops or media is completely legit. His job is to protect his kid... and as much good as he does as Robin, Bruce quite literally trained him to take the place of another young boy who was beaten with a crowbar and blown up by a psychotic clown. In the DC universe Robin was currently the most dangerous position in the world... Heck they even retconned Dick getting fired after Robin was shot in teh line of duty.

    Frankly the best thing he could have done, was grab the kid, move to california... or France or something that gets him completely away from Bruce.

    But that whole time I can just picture Bruce thinking to himself... 'Orphans... this is why Orphans are better.... "



    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    My favorite Dark Knight is from the Bronze age so I feel you, dude. My girlfriend put it best.

    "I feel as if the Batman I like is pretty much not the one everyone else does."

    I actively hate the modern take on Batman. It goes all back to DKR. Some writers can make him work, but I lose interest very easily when he just manifests some billion dollar gizmo because "hey, he's rich" or he does some Batgod crap. I miss when he was a detective with a cool car and specific arsenal of gadgets and was required to be clever to make it all work.
    YES!!!

    Yep, the batman i love is pretty much dead when he's rebuilding Red Tornado, buildign teleporters and creating mech-suits to punch out Darkseid. Personally I blame Oracle. Right or wrong that's when i really noticed him giving any and all detective work a backseat. Why do any research or thinking when you can get oracle on the line and just ask her for the information... and then from a distance she'll hack the security, unlock the door, and erase the footage. All Batman has to do is growl and punch people.

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