DC Africana Appreciation: Vol. 2

[Iconic]

I'm glad this thread exist. It's one of the few times minority characters get brought up in conversation. But it's also somewhat discouraging knowing that this thread is needed because otherwise not a lot of people would talk about them. Most minority characters come after DC's golden years. They weren't apart of the JSA or original 7 JL, even the original Teen Titans to some extent. Most don't rank into people's favorites and some are on the JLA team as a replacement or a placeholder. Hal Jordan is still a preferred character on the league which is fine, but they also want Martian Manhunter to be the one to appeal to minorities which is a little weird. Besides the terrifics I haven't felt a minority character truly has a reserved spot amongst the different DC Teams.

I don't blame fans or DC for the fact, but man does it feel alienating when we can't see these great characters interact with everyone's favorite characters (Batman, Wonder Woman, Superman, JSA). Half of them don't even have a history to be reflected on. The sad part is that I feel like they won't be able to even add diverse characters to the JSA or JLA without it feeling unnatural.

I want to appreciate all the characters. I want to see more underrated ones like bloodwynd or hotspot. I want to know more about some of the "popular" minority characters like Cyborg or Blue Beetle, but even their history is limited. I also want for their to be at least one minority DC character that fans and general conses would that they could look up to this character and that they're a great role model. Something that you don't have to find elsewhere because I like DC's world and worldbuilding.

I’ve stopped posting here but this post drew me out. I just wanted to say that this is an all-time great post. I differ in that I do blame DC for the lack of genuine love and care for such characters but great post nonetheless.

[Vampire Savior]

What I've found is that, despite the apparent beliefs of some, white people and others will generally like black characters if black characters are cool and interesting. Thing is, DC's black heroes are typically not that. Even the best, which is easily John Stewart in my view, is a very weak alternative to Hal Jordan. So it comes across to me that the people who strongly get behind these black characters usually do so because the characters are black. I'm not trying to spin that as necessarily a bad thing, but a character's race will only get them so far, and that type of thing often only works on black readers. Other people need a, you know, actually good and compelling character to sink their teeth into. One who you can say more about than, "oh, they have potential."

[Robanker]

What I've found is that, despite the apparent beliefs of some, white people and others will generally like black characters if black characters are cool and interesting. Thing is, DC's black heroes are typically not that. Even the best, which is easily John Stewart in my view, is a very weak alternative to Hal Jordan. So it comes across to me that the people who strongly get behind these black characters usually do so because the characters are black. I'm not trying to spin that as necessarily a bad thing, but a character's race will only get them so far, and that type of thing often only works on black readers. Other people need a, you know, actually good and compelling character to sink their teeth into. One who you can say more about than, "oh, they have potential."

For what it's worth, I'm white and I'll always give a book with Michael Holt or Jefferson Pierce at least an issue so long as they have a significant role in it. I enjoyed season one of Naomi as well and am looking forward to more. Enjoying Far Sector but I'd read that book even if it didn't have words in it because damn it looks so good. I can't speak to anyone else's entry to the DCU, but I love the whole damn thing and so long as I found a character's story compelling (or, hell, maybe just their visual. Looking at you over at Marvel, Ghost Rider) then that's all I need. They're people (sometimes from doomed planets, sometimes not) and that's always enough common ground for me to find a connection with them on some level. I like to think a lot of readers have that same approach, but I'm aware that there's a thinly-veiled hate movement in the fandom that proves not everyone's groovy.

I disagree that DC's black characters aren't cool or are simply uninteresting. The problem is entirely one of two things: DC isn't getting many good pitches for them (unlikely) or they're not greenlighting many, likely due to a lack of faith in sales (highly likely). We're getting some stuff now, though for non-limited books the pickings are slim. It absolutely sucks, but between Batman and the Outsiders (where Jeff is prominent), The Terrifics, Naomi (when it comes out, but she's also spilled into Action Comics/Young Justice), Far Sector, Justice League and recently Aquaman there's some good stuff with high-profile creators being put out right now highlighting black characters. I may have missed some but it's late and those are the immediate titles that come to mind. There have been worse periods for black characters at DC to be certain.

Not going to lie, I'm actually a little salty whenever I hear someone say Jefferson Pierce isn't cool because he's absolutely dad goals in that show and he's been great in BatO. Dude's literally on the short list for best role model in comics. Athlete. Educator. Devoted parent. Respected member of his community. The skeleton in his closet? He dresses in a super suit and busts crime that evades the police and looks cool doing it. Yeah, that last one is vigilantism, but in his universe that's essentially considered the right thing to do when you have his abilities, so yeah. Jeff is dope and I won't stand for slander against him.

[Raijin]

@Robanker Why is it unlikely that DC isn’t getting good pitches for black characters? I know it’s cool to hate on anything DC these days. But them not getting good pitches for black characters isn’t as far-fetched as you may think.

[lemonpeace]

ok let's have some fun with pitches. you get two pitches, at least 1 character from the list, take your top choice and last choice and give us 4 things:

1. [a title name]

2. [featured character]

3. [creative team*]

4. [1-2 sentence hook**]

*writing and art regardless of publisher so go ham sandwich with the choices

**feel free to expand your idea (hell, or someone else's) after the fact if you feel so compelled

[Vampire Savior]

Not going to lie, I'm actually a little salty whenever I hear someone say Jefferson Pierce isn't cool because he's absolutely dad goals in that show and he's been great in BatO. Dude's literally on the short list for best role model in comics. Athlete. Educator. Devoted parent. Respected member of his community. The skeleton in his closet? He dresses in a super suit and busts crime that evades the police and looks cool doing it. Yeah, that last one is vigilantism, but in his universe that's essentially considered the right thing to do when you have his abilities, so yeah. Jeff is dope and I won't stand for slander against him.

There are a couple reasons why many readers won't be into Black Lightning, I think.

First and foremost among them is he has no notable stories. At least in comics, I know. I can't speak about his show at all because I don't watch it, or follow any communities that do. He may have a few comic runs, but nothing anyone talks about, like Perez or Rucka's Wonder Woman, Waid's Flash, Johns' Green Lantern, Morrison's Superman and Justice League, Ostrander's Suicide Squad and so on. Those stories are touch stones to get people into characters and mythologies. Basically no black character at DC has a story like those that are held in high acclaim and regarded as classics. I guess the closest might be Green Lantern: Mosaic. Usually, the closest black characters come to that is being a part of something larger, like Cyborg in Perez and Wolfman's New Teen Titans, or John Stewart in Green Lantern.

Then there will be some readers who are turned off by the stereotypical nature of the character and his stories. He's named "Black" Lightning and is relegated to fighting gangbangers in the hood.

I disagree that DC's black characters aren't cool or are simply uninteresting.

Eye of the beholder, I suppose, but I believe a lot of readers feel that way, even if it's not something they go around thinking everyday. I remember seeing a recent thread where a notable number of posters said they "like" Cyborg, but have 0 interest in reading stories with him as the lead character. I think the subject of it was something like what characters do you like but don't want to read solo stories of. I'm confident at least someone else around here saw and noted the same thing. Why would a situation like that be the case other than Cyborg simply isn't interesting enough for those posters to want to read stories about him?

Just pointing out some reasons why people might not talk about black characters at DC (if that's even the case, I've never consciously noted that) or hold them in really high regard. I think there are some very obvious things you can point to that explain it.

[LordAllMIghty]

Right now, I'm in a three way tie with Black Lightning, Mister Terrific and Steel.

[Agent Z]

https://themiddlespaces.com/2015/03/...-not-included/

Back when I first read this article I agreed with it for the most part. Now, while I think it has some good points, I also feel it accentuates the negatives when it comes to Cyborg in some parts and reflects some troubling notions about black masculinity which a lot of Cyborg's detractors have parroted.

[iron chimp]

ok let's have some fun with pitches. you get two pitches, at least 1 character from the list, take your top choice and last choice and give us 4 things:

1. [a title name]

2. [featured character]

3. [creative team*]

4. [1-2 sentence hook**]

*writing and art regardless of publisher so go ham sandwich with the choices

**feel free to expand your idea (hell, or someone else's) after the fact if you feel so compelled

Given its being reported Nigeria just appointed a dead man to a senior government position then an out of continuity / elseworlds shaft in africa style aged up Duke Thomas who investigates African political crimes / arms / big business / war criminals / euro.mercanaries / migrants / sharia etc etc. Wouldnt sell many but you just need say 18k to keep it ticking over.

However, i cant see anyone touching that idea.

[Raijin]

There are a couple reasons why many readers won't be into Black Lightning, I think.

First and foremost among them is he has no notable stories. At least in comics, I know. I can't speak about his show at all because I don't watch it, or follow any communities that do. He may have a few comic runs, but nothing anyone talks about, like Perez or Rucka's Wonder Woman, Waid's Flash, Johns' Green Lantern, Morrison's Superman and Justice League, Ostrander's Suicide Squad and so on. Those stories are touch stones to get people into characters and mythologies. Basically no black character at DC has a story like those that are held in high acclaim and regarded as classics. I guess the closest might be Green Lantern: Mosaic. Usually, the closest black characters come to that is being a part of something larger, like Cyborg in Perez and Wolfman's New Teen Titans, or John Stewart in Green Lantern.

Then there will be some readers who are turned off by the stereotypical nature of the character and his stories. He's named "Black" Lightning and is relegated to fighting gangbangers in the hood.



Eye of the beholder, I suppose, but I believe a lot of readers feel that way, even if it's not something they go around thinking everyday. I remember seeing a recent thread where a notable number of posters said they "like" Cyborg, but have 0 interest in reading stories with him as the lead character. I think the subject of it was something like what characters do you like but don't want to read solo stories of. I'm confident at least someone else around here saw and noted the same thing. Why would a situation like that be the case other than Cyborg simply isn't interesting enough for those posters to want to read stories about him?

Just pointing out some reasons why people might not talk about black characters at DC (if that's even the case, I've never consciously noted that) or hold them in really high regard. I think there are some very obvious things you can point to that explain it.

There’s literally an in-story for why he’s called “Black” Lightning and I don’t really see the problem with him protecting HIS community. Most street-level superheroes have their own turf. So i don’t really see the issue once again. I’ve seen posts from you before, specifically on here. You come off as not caring for black superheroes. Is it personal for you?

[Vampire Savior]

There’s literally an in-story for why he’s called “Black” Lightning and I don’t really see the problem with him protecting HIS community. Most street-level superheroes have their own turf. So i don’t really see the issue once again.

That's all your opinion. There are going to be some other people who don't see things the way you do or who aren't attracted to the things you are.

I’ve seen posts from you before, specifically on here. You come off as not caring for black superheroes. Is it personal for you?

I'm fairly certain my first post in this topic was earlier this morning. But either way, that's neither here nor there.

[Agent Z]

Black Lightning's chief antagonist is Tobias Whale who is a mob boss. This is no more stereotypical than Kingpin being Daredevil's arch enemy. Black lightning also deals with metahuman criminals, hired assassins (many of whom aren't black or gang members) and global terrorists.

It is inaccurate to say that Black Lightning just fights "gangbangers in the hood".

As for his name, we already have evidence that such a name isn't going to be a turn off towards most audiences. The people complaining about it are a minority on the internet that gets offended by anything that even implies a reference to race.

[Vampire Savior]

As for his name, we already have evidence that such a name isn't going to be a turn off towards most audiences. The people complaining about it are a minority on the internet that gets offended by anything that even implies a reference to race.

Well, speaking only for myself, I don't so much think the name is offensive as much as I think it's ridiculous.

[Agent Z]

Well, speaking only for myself, I don't so much think the name is offensive as much as I think it's ridiculous.

Fair enough but he'd hardly be the only superhero with a ridiculous name and as far as ridiculous names go, I wouldn't put him in the top ten.

[Vampire Savior]

Fair enough but he'd hardly be the only superhero with a ridiculous name and as far as ridiculous names go, I wouldn't put him in the top ten.

That might be true, and other heroes with ridiculous names (such as Horn Blower) are quite possibly going to have some difficulty taking off with audiences because of those ridiculous names.