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  1. #16
    Mighty Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    When I stop and think about it there are many heroes that while not villains are so different that the public would distrust them a great deal and so they may be seen as more villainous then they really are.

    Mutants would fall under this category.

    I would think most aliens would as well. It amazes me how accepting people are to out of world visitors.

    I would think robots, androids, and Ai heroes as well. Like Vision. I mean he tried to take over the computers of the world. That would make me not trust him.
    How about Deities, or characters that get their powers from Deities?
    Any superpowered individual claiming to be a God or claiming their powers come from a pantheon of Gods, is going to stir up all sorts of problems by their very presence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Definitely, Vision is the son of Ultron after all.

    I agree that anyone who kills would be seen as a villain, Punisher would be infamous as a serial killer, not heroically famous as an enforcer who wipes out gangs.
    Punisher would likely not change too much in how he’s viewed, imho.
    Law enforcement would officially see him as a him as a serial killer/huge threat, criminals would crap themselves at the thought of him, and ppl in general would be divided, w. some cheering him on, while others condemned his actions.
    Last edited by Riv86672; 03-27-2020 at 12:48 PM.

  2. #17
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Wolverine is a literal mass murderer. He also teaches children.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    Deadpool

    Silver Surfer

    Maybe Blade and other vampire hunters, there would be people saying that vampires are a minority and vampire hunters are bigots.
    Skeeter: Hey time traveling O5 members of the X-Men We don't take kindly to people who create a time paradox around here!

    Bartender: Now calm down Skeeter they aint hurtin nobody.

    Skeeter: No! I wanna know som'in from the "O5" How come you cant go back to your own timeline in the first place and how come when Reed Richards "fixed" the universe you wasnt put back and how come the changes that happn to you dont happn to your present day selves?

    Bartender: Skeeter I dont want trouble

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    captain america and marvel outside of america, hulk, stark would get plenty of communist memes

  5. #20
    Niffleheim
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    Wolverine is a literal mass murderer. He also teaches children.
    In real life The entire mutants body swings from being a terrorists group to an organization that recruits child soldiers

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronus View Post
    What about Punisher, Wolverine and Deadpool? A body count would be a good way to qualify yeah?
    QFT.

    Hell even in-universe, Punisher is considered a criminal.

  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    How about Deities, or characters that get their powers from Deities? Any superpowered individual claiming to be a God or claiming their powers come from a pantheon of Gods, is going to stir up all sorts of problems by their very presence.
    The historian in me thinks that if the deities really existed, most of the current world religions would be taken down several pegs. They wouldn't have the same influence on the world. I'm not buying that at some point all of the Skyfathers would casually step aside just so that humanity could foster its own concept of God. That goes against everything that we know about the mythical deities across all pantheons. They insisted on interacting with the human population. In some cases, the very existence and power wielded by some deities hinged on the number of adherents that worshipped them. I find it hard to believe that someone like Zeus would give that up ever, let alone some of the more arrogant and darker gods like Set. These gods would have done everything in their power to ensure that no other definition of divinity existed, whether we're talking the Buddha, the Prophet Muhammad, the Christ, or any other divine entity. That would have been the first Secret War, if not the first World Wars, and it would have started several millennia ago and continued to the present age. Humanity would be caught in the middle, each person likely taking sides according to whichever deity held sway over their family. So yes, some gods would be viewed as villains, no question. But others as benevolent beings...so long as they were worshipped.

    This is why Thor #300 was such an awesome book. It established that all of Earth's pantheon of gods were far below the Celestials in terms of unfettered power and authority. And it hammered home the point that the reason why the various pantheons did not interfere in the development of humanity was because of the Celestial decree. But alas, current writers have turned that established canon on its ear. Now we have any number of beings easily trouncing Celestials and their decrees as easily as you or I brush aside packaging peanuts.

  8. #23
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    The historian in me thinks that if the deities really existed, most of the current world religions would be taken down several pegs. They wouldn't have the same influence on the world. I'm not buying that at some point all of the Skyfathers would casually step aside just so that humanity could foster its own concept of God. That goes against everything that we know about the mythical deities across all pantheons. They insisted on interacting with the human population. In some cases, the very existence and power wielded by some deities hinged on the number of adherents that worshipped them. I find it hard to believe that someone like Zeus would give that up ever, let alone some of the more arrogant and darker gods like Set. These gods would have done everything in their power to ensure that no other definition of divinity existed, whether we're talking the Buddha, the Prophet Muhammad, the Christ, or any other divine entity. That would have been the first Secret War, if not the first World Wars, and it would have started several millennia ago and continued to the present age. Humanity would be caught in the middle, each person likely taking sides according to whichever deity held sway over their family. So yes, some gods would be viewed as villains, no question. But others as benevolent beings...so long as they were worshipped.

    This is why Thor #300 was such an awesome book. It established that all of Earth's pantheon of gods were far below the Celestials in terms of unfettered power and authority. And it hammered home the point that the reason why the various pantheons did not interfere in the development of humanity was because of the Celestial decree. But alas, current writers have turned that established canon on its ear. Now we have any number of beings easily trouncing Celestials and their decrees as easily as you or I brush aside packaging peanuts.
    The Celestials even noticing anything the Avengers or other heroes do is ridiculous, forget individual Celestials getting killed or beaten on earth. The Celestials caused the Great Cataclysm because they didn't like how an experiment with the Deviants was going, what do you think they would do if one of their own had been killed here? I don't like any of the current stuff with the Celestials, The First Firmament, The Fallen, The Horde etc. I may be alone, but I feel these things have diminished the grandeur and power of the Celestials.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    The Celestials even noticing anything the Avengers or other heroes do is ridiculous, forget individual Celestials getting killed or beaten on earth. The Celestials caused the Great Cataclysm because they didn't like how an experiment with the Deviants was going, what do you think they would do if one of their own had been killed here? I don't like any of the current stuff with the Celestials, The First Firmament, The Fallen, The Horde etc. I may be alone, but I feel these things have diminished the grandeur and power of the Celestials.
    I definitely agree with you here. If the choice was mine, the Celestials would rate below TOAA and just above the Phoenix Force as far as the most powerful proponents of life in the omniverse. And no, it would not be possible for even the most powerful reality warper, like Franklin Richards, to ever be considered a Celestial. There would be an element of unassailability to Celestials such that certainly no mortal being, mechanical, mystical or natural force, or any other living or inanimate thing could ever attain Celestial status. Any battles with them would need to involve Reason, because no manner of force would work. But obviously Marvel sees it differently.

  10. #25
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    I definitely agree with you here. If the choice was mine, the Celestials would rate below TOAA and just above the Phoenix Force as far as the most powerful proponents of life in the omniverse. And no, it would not be possible for even the most powerful reality warper, like Franklin Richards, to ever be considered a Celestial. There would be an element of unassailability to Celestials such that certainly no mortal being, mechanical, mystical or natural force, or any other living or inanimate thing could ever attain Celestial status. Any battles with them would need to involve Reason, because no manner of force would work. But obviously Marvel sees it differently.
    I couldn't agree more. The way you have described is essentially how I saw them growing up, but in the last ten years or so, Marvel Editorial seems to have stopped caring.

  11. #26
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Interesting discussion, but to swing it back on topic, Spider-Man, simply because he's a human creepy-crawly and arachnophobia is all too common in the real world. The media would have a field day portraying him in the worst light possible, especially against the likes of "upstanding citizens" like Wilson Fisk and Norman Osborn (no real-world billionaires' names used here for the sake of not ruffling feathers).
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  12. #27
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    Black Panther.
    Reality is for those who are afraid of science fiction.

  13. #28
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MouserGrey View Post
    Black Panther.
    That's actually a very good point, in light of real-world racism and such.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    *sigh* This again. I’m so tired. The “all people from the 40’s had to have been racist” argument falls apart when you consider the fact that two of the reigning kings of using fiction/pop culture to fight for equality, re: Gene Roddenberry (creator of Star Trek) and Jack Kirby (co-creator of Cap, the original X-Men, and Black Panther) were both from the 40’s. In fact what do these two men have in common other than the themes in their body of work? They both served in WW2.

    BTW Mr. (Fred) Rogers was also “from the 40’s”. Just saying.

    Moreover Cap was not created to be an accurate portrayal of life in the 40’s. Simon and Kirby based him on the Golem of Prague mythology. The A on Cap’s helmet? In Hebrew it is the letter א, which represents “truth”. In the golem of Prague mythology that activated the golem. Steve’s origin is also reminiscent of the golem of Prague story. The golem was molded from raw material (a young, frail Steve Rogers) but through magic (the super soldier serum) became a strong and formidable defender of the Jewish community. The golem had a star on his chest, just like Cap does. There are other parallels as well. Thus Steve was never meant to be this modern day representative of the Greatest Generation, that was never his creators’ intent. He was always meant to be a champion brought to life for the explicit reason of defending the marginalized.

    More on that here: https://blog.nli.org.il/en/captain_america/
    Well put Capandkirby. I too see Cap as above all interpretations of a 40’s character, and more to do with the higher concerns.

  15. #30
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    Daredevil, both before and after his ID was revealed.

    Before, he's a brutal vigilante working in the shadows against those he deems criminal. How Spidey has a worse rep, I'll never know.

    Once outed as Matt, he's a ruthless criminal who manipulates the justice system to his advantage.

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