View Poll Results: What do the stakes need to be?

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16. You may not vote on this poll
  • Solving/Preventing a theft

    1 6.25%
  • Solving/Preventing a murder

    0 0%
  • Solving/Preventing multiple murders

    6 37.50%
  • City destruction/domination

    1 6.25%
  • World destruction/domination

    0 0%
  • Other - please describe

    8 50.00%
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  1. #16
    BANNED
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    Solving/preventing multiple murders.

    An opening like this:

    b5fb95c260092866f8f85737732a3c0d.jpg

    Just change pikachu xD with gordon and we have a great start.

  2. #17
    Incredible Member cgh's Avatar
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    To paraphrase, the death of one person is a tragedy, the death of a million people (or a city) is a statistic. So I tend not to get too invested in the "big" stories. On the other hand, it's kind of a rule of thumb in dramatic fiction that death is real, which is why you don't read crime fiction that's free of dead bodies. And my belief is that Batman is crime fiction.

    Or it used be. I think one reason the O'Neil/Adams era is so revered is because it had that universal feel of a guy who is regularly faced with human awfulness on a small and relatable scale. I wonder what someone with the sentiments of an Ian Rankin could do with Batman.

  3. #18
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Maybe I'm not being clear enough - the idea is if there's a new story being released, not in the regular title you are already reading, what sort of synopsis of the crime/challenge does it take to make you interested enough to buy it? Of those stories you have read - what's the liklihood/percentages of stories with each set of stakes be to engage your or make it to your favorite stories list?
    These days, I'm tired of how many times Joker has destroyed Gotham City.

    Batman shouldn't be dealing with über-crisis after über-crisis formatted to tpb-friendly collections. Every now and then it makes sense to have something threatening (or seeming to threaten) the entire city, but what happened to the Batman who would also just fight street crimes to make things safer for 8-year-old boys and girls walking the streets with their parents after maybe seeing a movie?

    And Batman by himself shouldn't be dealing with "world destruction / domination" stories; that's where the Justice League should also be involved.

    As to the part of "if there's a new story being released, not in the regular title you are already reading, what sort of synopsis of the crime/challenge does it take to make you interested enough to buy it?", one of the key factors that I need to consider is who the hell is the WRITER?
    There are some people I just won't buy a book they've written unless there are truly unusual circumstances involved.

  4. #19
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    Make the stakes personal, give us a reason to care, not just pointless 'feats'

  5. #20
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    It can be anything and that's always been the case. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in Hugo Strange's first appearance he was Moriarty having already conquered the city so the everything at stake notion isn't new. It just used to be used sparingly rather than every few months.

    I think we'll all agree that the city on fire/everybody dies stakes are just boring at this point because it's utterly meaningless. We're desensitised to death in Batman's books because at this point the number is too big to reasonably consider sensible, no name character will die even if 7 million people are wiped off the face of the Earth and we know it's not going to happen anyway because the entire point of the story is that Batman stops it. Otherwise, Batman doesn't have anywhere to be Batman.

    That is why one or two murders (especially with the threat of more) works better than killing a city. If you say X is going to die, a good writer can make you hope that doesn't happen to them and/or anyone else. Or they can make a solid story about solving the case. You can only truly destroy Gotham once (which we know doesn't happen because DC have advertised books after this event where Gotham is not destroyed). Thus there are no actual stakes.

    Sure, we had No Man's Land but that was a changed Gotham not a destroyed, everybody is dead Gotham.
    Just. Be. Nice.

  6. #21
    Fantastic Member Rufio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Good writing. The stakes can be world shaking, or Condiment King staining some poor bystander's clothes with ketchup. What matters is how its written for me to enjoy. And decent artwork too.
    XD I love this post so much. Made my day.

    But I agree. Part of me wanted to choose the theft one but also one of the murder ones. But I just can’t choose, so I’m going with your post.
    “Fleeing through the labyrinths with the hordes of the living dead fast upon them;
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  7. #22
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    These days, I'm tired of how many times Joker has destroyed Gotham City.

    Batman shouldn't be dealing with über-crisis after über-crisis formatted to tpb-friendly collections. Every now and then it makes sense to have something threatening (or seeming to threaten) the entire city, but what happened to the Batman who would also just fight street crimes to make things safer for 8-year-old boys and girls walking the streets with their parents after maybe seeing a movie?

    And Batman by himself shouldn't be dealing with "world destruction / domination" stories; that's where the Justice League should also be involved.

    As to the part of "if there's a new story being released, not in the regular title you are already reading, what sort of synopsis of the crime/challenge does it take to make you interested enough to buy it?", one of the key factors that I need to consider is who the hell is the WRITER?
    There are some people I just won't buy a book they've written unless there are truly unusual circumstances involved.
    It's weird, but the comics these days have gone all in on the uber city destroying crisis and No Man's Land type stories despite even the films realizing the best Batman stories are lower stakes than that. I mean, The Dark Knight was ultimately a battle for the soul and heart of the city rather than mass destruction (yes, Joker blew up a hospital and nearly two ferries loaded with people), Under the Red Hood was a much more personal story. And going back to the comics, pretty much none of the "evergreen" titles are apocalyptic like that - Year One, Long Halloween, Hush, Dark Knight Returns, even newer favorites like Court of Owls and The White Knight. Yet it seems like everytime I check in on what the latest story lines are it seems Gotham's in big trouble. Writers really need to learn to scale back down again with Batman.

  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    In each crime, the steak is in how much it means to the person who lost it

  9. #24
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    In each crime, the steak is in how much it means to the person who lost it
    I'd probably turn to crime too if steaks were involved. "That masked man stole my steak!" They'd all yell. Sure, Batman would catch me and send me to Arkham eventually, but until then all those steak dinners would've made it worth it!

  10. #25
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    In each crime, the steak is in how much it means to the person who lost it
    I’m a Ribeye dude myself.

  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Sirloin here. I have a knife and I'm not afraid to use it. (A steak knife isn't good for stabbing, but works well for interrogation.)

  12. #27
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    It depends on the story.

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    I find that villains who have motivations other then mass murder or world domination are more believable sometimes. Especially in superhero comics it’s strains credibility that a mass murdering character like the Joker would be allowed to kill as many people as he has.

  14. #29
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    I find that villains who have motivations other then mass murder or world domination are more believable sometimes. Especially in superhero comics it’s strains credibility that a mass murdering character like the Joker would be allowed to kill as many people as he has.
    I think the past several posts have proven that getting steak is a very good villainous motivation.

    I joke, but that'd actually make for a cute campy throwback comic with Condiment King and I think we all want that now.

  15. #30
    duke's casettetape lemonpeace's Avatar
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    this question has no answer, it depends on the story. it's like asking "what's the race or the age of a good protagonist?" iunno, it depends on the story.
    SIGNAL (Duke Thomas) is DC's secret shonen protagonist! his fandom wikia
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