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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Default How do you think current clark will handle/react the current jason todd?

    @stargazer01 posted a thread about hitman and superman. Which got me thinking? How would the current superman, handle the current jason todd? I mean, clark Disagreed with hitman. But, ultimately he understood the guy.I believe those two would have resolved their issues to a degree, though the tension would always be there. He genuinely mourned for him. Jason is a kid that clark knew personally to a degree. He also knew the circumstances of his apparent death,as well. Jason also helped him out with Black Mercy. There was an encounter in new52 (which absolutely sucked for me, btw) . Jason is also the only family bizarro has, currently. Would clark be antagonistic like bruce is most of the time? Should he be? What do you guys think?

    Personally, i don't think clark will have the animosity and the passion with which batman hunts down jason. Furthermore, clark is friends with diana. She kills.Also, as said clark respected hitman tommy.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-28-2020 at 01:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    There's a difference to how he and Diana kill and how Jason kills. Even Tommy usually needed a paycheck.

    Jason does so as a crime of passion; he kills who he thinks deserves it. You could argue Diana and Clark do this as well, but they've proven to use lethal force only when necessary and Jason... He just kind of does it when he feels like it's about time.

    I think Clark would look at Jason as someone who has severely lost their way and needs people to help reorient him, something the Dark Trinity generally seemed to be doing. He'd remember the troubled youth he was as Robin and who he's become now and try to help him become a better man, but I think he respects Jason enough not to treat him like a kid and would absolutely stop him if it came to it. I don't think he'd be as antagonistic as Bruce because he doesn't have the same level of guilt over Jason that Bruce does. He'd still get in the way of any murders Jason would commit, but he'd be someone who views Jason as damaged and needing help considering how he flip-flops between anti-hero and borderline anti-villain.

  3. #3
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    He doesn't care about any of this stuff, he lets Black Adam and Slade just wander around without a care in the world. He walked in on the JL brainwashing Batman and sort of shrugged his shoulders and helped cover it up. At this point in the characters existence Superman tends to overlook small stuff he can't use for a photo op.

    Even with Bruce the whole Bruce being after Jason stuff is just there for drama. There's no real depth to it or actually interesting concepts at play. It's the same old, same old.
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  4. #4
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    There's a difference to how he and Diana kill and how Jason kills. Even Tommy usually needed a paycheck.

    Jason does so as a crime of passion; he kills who he thinks deserves it. You could argue Diana and Clark do this as well, but they've proven to use lethal force only when necessary and Jason... He just kind of does it when he feels like it's about time.

    I think Clark would look at Jason as someone who has severely lost their way and needs people to help reorient him, something the Dark Trinity generally seemed to be doing. He'd remember the troubled youth he was as Robin and who he's become now and try to help him become a better man, but I think he respects Jason enough not to treat him like a kid and would absolutely stop him if it came to it. I don't think he'd be as antagonistic as Bruce because he doesn't have the same level of guilt over Jason that Bruce does. He'd still get in the way of any murders Jason would commit, but he'd be someone who views Jason as damaged and needing help considering how he flip-flops between anti-hero and borderline anti-villain.
    Isn't that actually worse?jason and hitman both just of whom they consider bad people. What difference does it make whether one gets paid or not? Jason takes up a hit, when it's absolutely necessary. You could also argue that, clark and diana have more resources and can afford to be more patient and strong. Jason doesn't. Which is precisely why clark respected hitman. He actually even calls hitman brave.


    I think misguided youth thing is a bit patronising and a more messiah/example nonsense. Him trying to "reform" jason is equally that. It's the standard writing superman has suffered through. But, then again the current superman is like that(not my cup of tea) . I think i would like clark to just be a little taken a back. They might even have a war of words. Clark will just agree to disagree at the end. Ofcourse, he might stop jason from doing stupid and being impulsive to the level he is. Beyond that, i believe clark would absolutely appreciate what jason is building with his family
    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    He doesn't care about any of this stuff, he lets Black Adam and Slade just wander around without a care in the world. He walked in on the JL brainwashing Batman and sort of shrugged his shoulders and helped cover it up. At this point in the characters existence Superman tends to overlook small stuff he can't use for a photo op.

    Even with Bruce the whole Bruce being after Jason stuff is just there for drama. There's no real depth to it or actually interesting concepts at play. It's the same old, same old.
    With the both of them clark doesn't have much of a choice. Black adam can go toe to toe with him. Slade can be hard to find if need be and slade has his own weapons. Clark is just incapable, that's all. He has all the intent with those guys. He can't solve everything, then there will be no conflict . Here with jason, clark has more of options. Jason doesn't have nearly as much resources as a Deathstroke does. He might when power creeps up.For now, he is very much apprehensible. Then again, the amazonian and kryptonIan on jason's side would be great deterrents. Removing that out the equation, the question is very much relevant .
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-28-2020 at 02:38 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post

    With the both of them clark doesn't have much of a choice. Black adam can go toe to toe with him. Slade can be hard to find if need be and slade has his own weapons. Clark is just incapable, that's all. He has all the intent with those guys. He can't solve everything, then there will be no conflict . Here with jason, clark has more of options. Jason doesn't have nearly as much resources as a Deathstroke does. He might when power creeps up.For now, he is very much apprehensible. Then again, the amazonian and kryptonIan on jason's side would be great deterrents. Removing that out the equation, the question is very much relevant .

    So what Clark only deals with problems he thinks he absolutely can solve? I don't think so but even if that were the case Clark could rally an entire force to beat the crap out of Adam, The Justice League, The other Supers, lesser hero's, etc. The guys got connections and Black Adam is a guy in his weightclass with magical powers. Plus he's way smarter than Adam. He just doesn't care, if he cared this much about loss of life he'd be out stopping regional wars 24/7. Yet he doesn't because it just doesn't matter that much too him if these guys are out here killing each other. He does enough to keep the Earth spinning and occasionally pulls cats out of trees.

    Slade is a fly who's best known for fighting children. If Kal wanted to toss him in the Phantom Zone he'd do it, he just doesn't care enough to do so. His crimes just are serious enough to get a response out of old boy.

    As for Bizarro and Artemis. I doubt he's scared of a guy he fights regularly and Diana Lesser. I'm sure to some degree there's a sentimental reason he doesn't "go after" Jason but on the whole at the end of the day Jason isn't some strange case in Superman's eyes. He's a human killing other humans, it's not that strange for the human race.
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  6. #6
    Astonishing Member sifighter's Avatar
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    I feel like given all the stuff going on in Jason’s life, such as his death by the joker, his recent fallout with Bruce, and the loss of Roy Harper he would want to try and console him a bit. Try to give him a shoulder, or be the person he is to be supportive.

    I also feel like he would respect him a bit for attempting to help the “outlaw generation” he picked up during the year of the villain arc and that he wants to help them so they survive or take them away basically from Lex Luthor. I also think he’d be interested to see how he is helping or is basically one of the best friends of Bizarro and how that’s helped Bizarro.

    I also think he would be a little irritated in how he handles things like shooting Penguin in the face and then locking him up in his casino. Overall I think it would be a mix of emotions, but he’s likely to handle it better then Bruce.
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  7. #7
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    So what Clark only deals with problems he thinks he absolutely can solve? I don't think so but even if that were the case Clark could rally an entire force to beat the crap out of Adam, The Justice League, The other Supers, lesser hero's, etc. The guys got connections and Black Adam is a guy in his weightclass with magical powers. Plus he's way smarter than Adam. He just doesn't care, if he cared this much about loss of life he'd be out stopping regional wars 24/7. Yet he doesn't because it just doesn't matter that much too him if these guys are out here killing each other. He does enough to keep the Earth spinning and occasionally pulls cats out of trees.

    Slade is a fly who's best known for fighting children. If Kal wanted to toss him in the Phantom Zone he'd do it, he just doesn't care enough to do so. His crimes just are serious enough to get a response out of old boy.

    As for Bizarro and Artemis. I doubt he's scared of a guy he fights regularly and Diana Lesser. I'm sure to some degree there's a sentimental reason he doesn't "go after" Jason but on the whole at the end of the day Jason isn't some strange case in Superman's eyes. He's a human killing other humans, it's not that strange for the human race.
    Yeah! And fails at others. If a protagonist doesn't fail he becomes a mary sue or gary stue.You are also forgetting that black adam has his own resources. He even has a country,now.There is also politcs to be concerned about. Besides, clark isn't a bounty hunter. He never was a shark like that. Ever. Superman didn't live to control things.

    Most of those children are pretty much equal to their mentor or far surpassed their mentors now. Slade himself has seized to be his former self.As with other things, power creep happens. Sure, superman can. But, then again it wouldn't be that easy.Bruce created a hellbat armour that can go toe to toe with darkseid. Deathstroke took on a team with wally west in it. And currently wally west is not something clark can sneese at. I think clark winning itself would be a big deal. This is a different landscape. Superman has challenges. That isn't bad thing either it's more opportunity.He isn't the top dog, that can beat anything now.

    Not really, bizarro with jason had changed. He even had superintelligence at a time. He also has wierd wise man thing going on with him now. Artemis isn't a less diana. She is a more ruthless and driven diana.When it comes to protecting something important Artemis is absolutely more fierce and ruthless . kryptonian for the most parts are humans. Clark has killed kryptonians and other aliens if we want to go specifically into murder being something between same species,Even the precrisis version. So this logic that, superman will totally see it as like "cat killing a mouse" or something like that is false. Jason is strange in that, he can't sit at the table with justice league. But, he works sometimes better than the superheroes did. He works better than even superman did, in a sense . I mean, he did more good by bizarro than clark has ever bothered to do. Not to mention they have puppup. Everybody knows pupup is the strongest and most powerful hero. Lol!

    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    I feel like given all the stuff going on in Jason’s life, such as his death by the joker, his recent fallout with Bruce, and the loss of Roy Harper he would want to try and console him a bit. Try to give him a shoulder, or be the person he is to be supportive.

    I also feel like he would respect him a bit for attempting to help the “outlaw generation” he picked up during the year of the villain arc and that he wants to help them so they survive or take them away basically from Lex Luthor. I also think he’d be interested to see how he is helping or is basically one of the best friends of Bizarro and how that’s helped Bizarro.

    I also think he would be a little irritated in how he handles things like shooting Penguin in the face and then locking him up in his casino. Overall I think it would be a mix of emotions, but he’s likely to handle it better then Bruce.
    Yeah! This pretty much similar to what i would think would happen. Ofcourse, being a shoulder to cry on is pushing it. Lol!
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-28-2020 at 04:08 PM.

  8. #8
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Well it does involve coming to terms with the concept of a shared universe. Villains and antiheroes will exist no matter how "good" the heroes. Why doesn't the Spectre punish Slade, y'know?

    The original death of Jason and his resurrection were really weird stories and I think they both made Batman look awkward. But I still think Clark would give him the respect to handle matters concerning Jason. It's not like his personal involvement or relationship with Jason has gone further than that. I don't see it as so much different than the old crossover Lobdell did with them.

    And since we're talking about Bizarro, I hope Bizarro Boy comes back.
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  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Just to point out; the Bizarro in Red Hood and the Outlaws and the Bizarro from Bizarro World are two very different characters. Bizarro World Bizarro is dubious at best, and an out right villain most of the time (as shown in a recent Terrifics issue). RH Bizarro though, isn't. Truth be told, he's not even a year old (in the comics universe), but has that "Superman-esque" quality to him where he wants to help innocent people (he helped a large group of Quraqis in RHatO Rebirth, for example). And even now, he has this whole zen/wiseman thing going on.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Well it does involve coming to terms with the concept of a shared universe. Villains and antiheroes will exist no matter how "good" the heroes. Why doesn't the Spectre punish Slade, y'know?

    The original death of Jason and his resurrection were really weird stories and I think they both made Batman look awkward. But I still think Clark would give him the respect to handle matters concerning Jason. It's not like his personal involvement or relationship with Jason has gone further than that. I don't see it as so much different than the old crossover Lobdell did with them.

    And since we're talking about Bizarro, I hope Bizarro Boy comes back.
    Yeah! I rather he not. He just works better with jason and crew. In Superman titles, he is just a handicapped superman. But, in those book bizarro is actually a protagonist. If he is made to comeback it will be downgrade. This sort of thing is what i wanted to happen to jon. Get away from the big s, build a new story.

    Bruce handles the jason situation horribly. Just like he did hitman situation and diana killing situation.Clark on the other hand was confused. I hated the writing for superman in diana killing situation. Superman being judgmental like that has always been bogus. I don't think it's respect for privacy or something like that.Current Clark hasn't encountered jason. When he does he would have to make calls.As for new52 meeting, jason is a kid that clark knew both as robin and as jason. If a kid dies, especially if bruce's son dies. I think, it will effect clark to a degree. The new52 meeting, just didn't have the familiarity. i have said clark is too personal for being a journalist. Well, clark wasn't personal with jason in new52 meeting. It was business. I think like in the hitman situation. Here too, clark would be too much confused.

    Wait? He is a hired gun, yet he has created this orphanage kinda thing for meta outcasts?He kills, but only bad guys?He deals drugs, but keeps the woman and children protected? Jason like characters is the kinda contradictions clark needs to come in contact with more often. Postcrisis Clark can't talk jason out of being redhood.He isn't some misguided youth out for vengeance(Well, he is. Like father, like son. Lol! ). Redhood is sort of like the necessary evil or good, with different perspective .
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-28-2020 at 10:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Yeah! I rather he not. He just works better with jason and crew. In Superman titles, he is just a handicapped superman. But, in those book bizarro is actually a protagonist. If he is made to comeback it will be downgrade. This sort of thing is what i wanted to happen to jon. Get away from the big s, build a new story.

    Bruce handles the jason situation horribly. Just like he did hitman situation and diana killing situation.Clark on the other hand was confused. I hated the writing for superman in diana killing situation. Superman being judgmental like that has always been bogus. I don't think it's respect for privacy or something like that.Current Clark hasn't encountered jason. When he does he would have to make calls.As for new52 meeting, jason is a kid that clark knew both as robin and as jason. If a kid dies, especially if bruce's son dies. I think, it will effect clark to a degree. The new52 meeting, just didn't have the familiarity. i have said clark is too personal for being a journalist. Well, clark wasn't personal with jason in new52 meeting. It was business. I think like in the hitman situation. Here too, clark would be too much confused.

    Wait? He is a hired gun, yet he has created this orphanage kinda thing for meta outcasts?He kills, but only bad guys?He deals drugs, but keeps the woman and children protected? Jason like characters is the kinda contradictions clark needs to come in contact with more often. Postcrisis Clark can't talk jason out of being redhood.He isn't some misguided youth out for vengeance(Well, he is. Like father, like son. Lol! ). Redhood is sort of like the necessary evil or good, with different perspective .
    This is the kinda stuff I dislike!! I agree with Clark!! I hated when they want to justify killer like him!!Wanting to make a murder into a hero!! Romanticizing killing!!

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotchj View Post
    This is the kinda stuff I dislike!! I agree with Clark!! I hated when they want to justify killer like him!!Wanting to make a murder into a hero!! Romanticizing killing!!
    Cyclops and rest of xmen doesn't have to do the dirty work cause wolverine does it for him.
    “I'm the best at what i do ,but what i do best isnt very nice.”
    When you are in this line of work. It happens. And i would be judging people who had to take life so that people like me can sit here and judge them. It isn't exactly fair. I don't have to kill because they kill for me. Just because someone has a code. Doesn't mean others have to or can live by that person's code. Bare in mind, wanton murder is indefensible. Neither am i justify it.

    Besides, Superman is a killer too. So, is wonder woman. Hal jordan too. Barry allen has been effing up timelines. He shot penguin, big deal.
    Jason isn't a superhero. Neither is he treated like one. he can't leap tall buildings in a single bound. He isn't a genius. He is just a beaten broken kid from street and he is treated like the outlaw. He has limitations, he doesn't have the luxury of "finding a way" .

    Also, clark was an outlaw too. He might have been the first superpowered outlaw, infact. His morality was," if you attack and hurt people or me there is no guarantee that while defending myself you wouldn't be hurt".

    At the end of the day, this is'nt about your opinion. It's about Clark's, for clark jason might still be the kid that wanted his autograph all those years ago. Clark's feelings regarding hitman didn't much change .(back when jason was written to be substitute dick grayson).

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Just to point out; the Bizarro in Red Hood and the Outlaws and the Bizarro from Bizarro World are two very different characters. Bizarro World Bizarro is dubious at best, and an out right villain most of the time (as shown in a recent Terrifics issue). RH Bizarro though, isn't. Truth be told, he's not even a year old (in the comics universe), but has that "Superman-esque" quality to him where he wants to help innocent people (he helped a large group of Quraqis in RHatO Rebirth, for example). And even now, he has this whole zen/wiseman thing going on.
    I guess I should further elaborate; they are also two separate characters. They just happen to share the same name and have pale skin. Otherwise, they are VERY different. What's more Bizarro from RHatO, other than an arc in Rebirth Trinity for some reason, does NOT talk like Bizarro World Bizarro (thankfully, that would just give me a headache).

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Clark would be fine with Current Jason. Current Jason is a hero. He even uses rubber bullets.
    There are no grounds for Clark to object to Jason. the past is the past. Those days he was an anti hero. Rebirth or rather since he rejoined the Batfamily as an ally he has been as hero.
    If Clark is cool with Harley and her past then he shouldn't hold Jason's past against him.

    Didn't JL have a crossover with RHATO in Rebirth?

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Clark would be fine with Current Jason. Current Jason is a hero. He even uses rubber bullets.
    There are no grounds for Clark to object to Jason. the past is the past. Those days he was an anti hero. Rebirth or rather since he rejoined the Batfamily as an ally he has been as hero.
    If Clark is cool with Harley and her past then he shouldn't hold Jason's past against him.

    Didn't JL have a crossover with RHATO in Rebirth?
    Early Rebirth was one thing. A lot has happened since. Like Jason shooting Penguin in the eye (with a blank, though Bruce didn't bother to ask about that), Bruce brutalizing Jason while Artemis and Biz got sucked into an alternative Earth. Jason didn't end up in Arkham only because Roy Harper got the drop on Bruce and rescued Jason (whom took a couple months before he could move without pain). And things haven't gone well since. Even for Alfred's funeral, Jason, for some reason, wasn't invited to the services.

    In all honesty, barring Kate Kane (Batwoman), and maybe Barbara (kind of iffy there), Jason is actually pretty distant from most of the Bats. Though he has his new family in the Outlaws, Ma Gunn, and a bunch of meta-teens that Lex planned to make into a new generation of villains (though Jason took them from him).

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