Netflix Daredevil vs. Arrovverse

[Captain Smith]

Excuse me if this had been done before, but just got into Netflix.

So - Daredevil vs. Ollie, Sarah, Deathstroke.

Individual encounters on NYC rooftops. No ambushes, they know each other are there. Typical equipment.

[FrenchGemini]

Some of those have been done. I don't know how far you are into Daredevil, but for this I will assume we are talking about Peak Matt (Season 2/Defenders).

I haven't been following Legends of Tomorrow for a while now, but unless Sara got significant toughness feats since Season 2, I'd say Matt takes her mostly based on that. Her only shot would be to start with her sonic device (which she still has, based on a Season 7 Arrow episode).

Regarding Slade, if Mirakuru is in play, it ends badly for Matt. Otherwise... eh, Matt is faster and more skilled, but Slade has a submachine gun, which he can aim, and more effective armor, combat wise (not downplaying the Daredevil suit's feat at the end of Defenders, but still). I'd give it to Matt, partly due being more in his element than Slade on rooftops, but it's not a stomp.



As for Green Arrow (we are OBVIOUSLY not talking about his final form), they are in the same ballpark in terms of physicality, Matt has better armor, but Ollie has trick arrows to deal with the armor (explosive arrows, though Matt would arguably know to deflect them instead of catching them by smelling explosives, bolo arrows), and I'd say he is a bit more skilled than Matt, based on their respective hallway performances (even if Matt had disadvantages going into each of those). So I'd give a majority to Ollie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WvDqmuzeZI

[big_adventure]

I would grant Ollie some points on presentation - he's supposed to be really good. But his choerography is sooooooo bad that he loses points immediately, and we just have to assume that everyone else in his world is horrible. And for all the times he throws himself into harm's way and does well against a bunch of dudes, he other times sees three and aborts, saying there is no way, or gets stopped by people who have no business stopping a guy who kicks 10 guys asses at once with a bow as a melee weapon. I just don't know what level to give him.

[Guy1]

[Guy1]

[Anarchist]

Sara has outright defeated Malcolm in Legends Season 2, and also fought toe-to-toe with Damien Darhk, I think she has this.

Everybody has this, honestly.

Occasional sloppy choreography aside (there were some really good scenes too), they have had much better feats than Matt.



This is Season 1 era Oliver.

[FrenchGemini]

Sara has outright defeated Malcolm in Legends Season 2, and also fought toe-to-toe with Damien Darhk, I think she has this.

Everybody has this, honestly.

Occasional sloppy choreography aside (there were some really good scenes too), they have had much better feats than Matt.

This is Season 1 era Oliver.

Again, agreed regarding Ollie. A bit more iffy regarding depowered Slade, but I can see an argument being made in his favor in the Arena due to his superior armor and weaponry. However, I don't recall him parkouring on rooftops, which is more of Daredevil's element, hence why I gave the nod to Matt in this precise scenario.

However, as much as I love Sara as a character, remember that by the end of Defenders, Matt was able to briefly keep up against two fingers of the Hand at the same time, one of whom had enough knowledge/skill/whatever to make Luke Cage feel his hits. And what makes him truly dangerous is the combination of skill and damage soak/durability(+armor), areas in which Merlyn, Darhk, and Sara (again, it's been a while since I watched Legends, feel free to prove me wrong) are a bit lacking compared to DD (I mean Daredevil, not Damien Darhk, duh! ). Worst way I can see it go for him in a melee fight is pretty much like one of the fights against Nobu in Season 2, minus the presence of a sharp and pointy weapon.

[greatmetropolitan]

I think Ollie and Co have this pretty handily. Ollie's soak in particular is way better than Matt's. Arrowverse guys get lowballed because of posters' choreography issues, but by in-universe presentation, Arrowverse has the edge here on soak, strength and skill.

[big_adventure]

I think Ollie and Co have this pretty handily. Ollie's soak in particular is way better than Matt's. Arrowverse guys get lowballed because of posters' choreography issues, but by in-universe presentation, Arrowverse has the edge here on soak, strength and skill.

Ollie's soak is not better than Matt's. Just check the Nobu fight. That damage would have dropped Ollie like a bad habit.

[Slade1]

Ollie's soak is not better than Matt's. Just check the Nobu fight. That damage would have dropped Ollie like a bad habit.

That Nobu fight I see Ollie doing just as good as Matt. They are both comparable in skill and damage soak. I like the Daredevil series much more than Arrow (I stopped watching after season 3) but that's the way I see it.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

I strongly doubt Matt could beat the likes of Thea from Areowverse, much less Sarah or Deathstroke.

[big_adventure]

I strongly doubt Matt could beat the likes of Thea from Areowverse, much less Sarah or Deathstroke.

Then I strongly doubt you are being fair there. Matt is visibly quicker, and his best reaction feats are better than any of the Arrow folks. He's visibly more skilled. He's not plagued by insane levels of CIS/PIS either (still some, just not insane levels like... everyone in CWverse). The one place he might be marginally worse is hitting power, but even then, his best stuff is "one-shot SWAT guys trivially" and that's as good as Ollie and Co. And as much as he has fights that go too long against mooks, so do the Arrow-verse people.

He'd badly beat Sarah, as long as she doesn't have the scream, and she's never used it in Legends, so I'd say it's not standard equipment. Thea is barely a workout. This is also on rooftops, and, unlike the people in Arrowverse, he's not going to stand there while they do silly impossible wire rope arrow things to jump around them. His Parkour is VASTLY beyond theirs, his stealth is vastly beyond, and there is no way any of them sneak up on him.

Now, in the arena, Ollie might be able to use explosives or something, if they can even be considered part of his standard loadout (far from sure, given how often he burns through a quivver with just regular broadheads), but here, DD's going to have too much time to get into cover, and the other folks have no way to find him or track him when he does. The same is not true in reverse. Ollie would still get some wins, it might even be even, but it's far from a stomp in either direction.

Deathstroke has the advantage of higher strength and higher durability, plus he carries instantly lethal weapons, likely including guns. He's going to win the majority, as, though Matt is likely to land more hits, Deathstroke's hits will do more damage overall.

Sarah is toast. She has no range game, and her best weapon is a thing she uses less well than Matt. Matt is quicker, tougher, more skilled.

[Anarchist]

Again, the fight I linked above was Season 1 Oliver. The guy who got beaten shitless by Malcolm. And Sara defeated Malcolm in Legends Season 2.

As for speed, Oliver has done things like shooting other Arrows or even RPG's / Grenade Launchers out of the sky.

And as for damage soak, while you are speaking of Slade, Oliver, even in his island years where he was barely trained, took hits from a Mirakura-powered Slade and kept going.

[FrenchGemini]

And as for damage soak, while you are speaking of Slade, Oliver, even in his island years where he was barely trained, took hits from a Mirakura-powered Slade and kept going.

Now that I think about it, still in the Island years, there is this bout of torture by Fyers and Wintergreen, where Ollie didn't give them anything in spite of the pain. And he was just a pampered playboy who just got stranded a few days/weeks ago at that point.

[Slade1]

Again, the fight I linked above was Season 1 Oliver. The guy who got beaten shitless by Malcolm. And Sara defeated Malcolm in Legends Season 2.

As for speed, Oliver has done things like shooting other Arrows or even RPG's / Grenade Launchers out of the sky.

And as for damage soak, while you are speaking of Slade, Oliver, even in his island years where he was barely trained, took hits from a Mirakura-powered Slade and kept going.

In one episode he got kicked by a Mirakura soldier from the ground, into the ceiling and back down and he shook it off.