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  1. #196
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Agreed

    I think most of these arguments are either taken without context or blown out of proportion to make their case and that´s why they are not convincing, at least for me imo,neither Xavier or the X-men have succedenly become drug lords just for doing international commerce with the world at large, just like Wankanda does with the vibranium, Xavier is using a product from Krakoa to help the economy in their country. Yes, they are a fictional country that could in theory sustain itself without commerce, but this fact doesn´t make them villains just for selling it to the world.


    If they made the argument of Xavier being unnecesary agressive on his message to the world that he could have send over the TV then I understand it but this exaggerated reaction over Krakoa´s medicine I just don´t buy.
    Xavier has absolutely no regrets to do what he does. It hasn't absolutely been not the case before: we saw him hesitate, be ashamed… be a human being.
    This…

  2. #197
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    How do you know he doesn´t have regrets when we hardly have seen what he thinks? In fact we have hardly seen what most of the X-men think given the main story has been about developing this new status quo, and even if he doesn´t even when we could see him be ashamed he usually tends to justify his actions unless directly confronted with them. Apart from allowing his dead I don´t see him being ashamed of what´s he´s doing for Krakoa or to mystique in fact he also used her in the past as his own secret agent and I can see even nice, heroic, Claremont Xavier holding a grudge over Mystique almost getting to kill Moira, Moira has always been one of the people he loves the most so yes, I can see him giving Mystique a hard time just for that. That doesn´t make him other person or a villain imo.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 04-04-2020 at 07:06 AM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  3. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Xavier has absolutely no regrets to do what he does. It hasn't absolutely been not the case before: we saw him hesitate, be ashamed… be a human being.
    This…
    Maybe you can take comfort in the facts that both Namor and Doom thinks he's only posturing, i.e. he does not really believe in what he's doing, but finds it's necessary for now.

    He really had no comeback for either of them, making it seem like he agreed with their statements.

  4. #199
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myownlittleusername View Post
    Maybe you can take comfort in the facts that both Namor and Doom thinks he's only posturing, i.e. he does not really believe in what he's doing, but finds it's necessary for now.

    He really had no comeback for either of them, making it seem like he agreed with their statements.
    Agreed, Namor bassically told Xavier that he was faking it and his change of heart and that he had not really left his dream behind, if anything, he called him off for not being superior enough to convince Namor he really changed his dream of coexistence and the opposite is what people are blaming Xavier for, being too arrogant and superior and leaving behind his dream.

    Doom mostly accused him of being too arrogant, yes, he recognized Krakoa as a country, no, he doesn´t need Krakoa´s medicines but Xavier didn´t have to be a jerk on his message to the world to get recognition for Krakoa.

    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 04-04-2020 at 07:15 AM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  5. #200
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    How do you know he doesn´t have regrets when we hardly have seen what he thinks? In fact we have hardly seen what most of the X-men think given the main story has been about developing this new status quo, and even if he doesn´t even when we could see him be ashamed he usually tends to justify his actions unless directly confronted with them.
    Comics is a visual media. To exist, things need to be shown.
    He doesn't show any feelings, so he has none. It's different even from Astonishing Xavier where he was, indeed, more ruthless but, at least, showed emotions and looked exasperated by his long-lost X-men…






    Hum… Namor is… a king, isn't he? And Xavier asked him to give up on that for what? A mutant brotherhood? What was he thinking?
    All "super-villains" have super egos. I wonder if Xavier's naivety has just changed of shape.

  6. #201
    Spectacular Member Sylarmax's Avatar
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    I'm the first one not to be a fan of Hickman. because not only Xavier but several of the characters do not behave as they should. and already the ravista cult and the theme of the resurrections without a path moleta me enough, and I think that its history is too pretentious and have several errors and plot gaps.for not knowing several of the characters.


    But unfortunately this is Xavier. I wanted to believe it was not, but when I resuscitate it, all this falls. Jean would notice this. alsso although it is Xavier. Jean might be infected by something without my knowing it. something technological or the librarian.


    what is certain is that Moira hides something from everyone. for some reason she does not want Destiny back, she is the only one who can expose her. surely this whole horrendous story will end when they eliminate this last life that remains, and Hickman will remove the monopoly of the mutants

  7. #202
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Comics is a visual media. To exist, things need to be shown.
    He doesn't show any feelings, so he has none. It's different even from Astonishing Xavier where he was, indeed, more ruthless but, at least, showed emotions and looked exasperated by his long-lost X-men…
    I can agree with this, I am also waiting to see the X-men explored as characters in their pov, I think the story badly needs to give us the character´s perspective.

    Hum… Namor is… a king, isn't he? And Xavier asked him to give up on that for what? A mutant brotherhood? What was he thinking?
    All "super-villains" have super egos. I wonder if Xavier's naivety has just changed of shape.
    A place in Krakoa, and no, I don´t think Xavier was really been naive, tbh I don´t think he has ever been naive in his life. Namor worked with Cyclops on Utopia,with Magneto and with Jean´s nation from X-men Red so it´s not difficult to think he would like to have a place or at least a relationship with Krakoa, my guess is that he just doesn´t like Charles or doesn´t see the point in working with him.


    But I agree that if Hickman keeps developing themes like the crucible then we as readers will need way more than just a couple of characters asking questions, we need to know why they believe in what they are doing and not just automatically smile and be happy with it all, I think the story is going in that direction so I am giving it time.

    I didn´t like much Hickman´s Avengers run either as it had this same flaws with the charcters being written too otherworldly sometimes, imo, he needs to write the characters like he did with the FF4 in a more family oriented way because the X-men also have always been a kind of family.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 04-04-2020 at 08:13 AM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  8. #203
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Nothing about that is in character for Xavier, it's what I'de expect from Magneto give his storm troopers in the Brotherhood. They punished him after doing what they knew he was going to do, Sabretooth didn't do it on his own. Xavier's been trusting the Brotherhood and Hellfire Club too much lately, Magneto's his number two at the moment. The "dumb" excuse has no merit, everyone knows what's Sabretooth does.



    "Helping mutants" isn't a broad excuse they can hide behind every nefarious plot they get up too. It's what the Brotherhood use when they hurt people. When those "baddies" are cartels, yes, they are the baddies. When did the X-men get into bed with organised crime? Emma wasn't this corrupt when she was on the X-men.



    You mean Kitty? They don't mind everything else he does, which is Shaw being Shaw.
    Again, they're using the black market to save mutants from countries such as Brasil and Russia who A) Use mutant kids as soldiers B) Send them to gulags C) Kill them using Predator X-esque creatures. That's a good enough reason to talk with cartels. It's not an easy situation, no need to look at it from a black and white perspective.

    Also, Emma is not corrupt. She's 100% for helping mutants and established a charity dedicated to "promoting health and well-being for all the people of the Earth".

    They also do mind what Shaw is doing, read Marauders. They even sank a shipment to teach him a lesson and remind him that they're not doing this to profit but to help mutants.

    Sending Sabretooth was a mistake, they still make mistakes lol. Xavier would have been a villain if he said "Go and kill whoever gets between you and the prize" (which in the past for some X-Leaders could also have been a thing, see the various X-Force incarnations) but he didn't. At the end of the day, Creed was punished for what he did.

    So no sign of Xavier being a supervillain. He's done way worse in the past too.

  9. #204

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    Wow Hickman really is writing Xavier as a heartless monster


  10. #205
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Sending Sabretooth wasn't really a mistake on Magneto and Xavier's part- I'm pretty sure they wanted to make an example of him.

  11. #206
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    Wow Hickman really is writing Xavier as a heartless monster
    A tear escaping a helmet? How emotional… I suppose it saves the comic artist by not having to draw face expressions.

  12. #207
    Spam Hunter Conn Seanery's Avatar
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    Maybe some of you missed it since it's a few pages back. Since there's been an upswing of the type of behavior I describe in the first sentence, here's a reminder. If you've had posts deleted recently, you know who you are and there will be consequences for continuing to behave this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conn Seanery View Post
    If you remove the sarcastic/condescending a-hole behavior it probably slims down to about two pages.

    Nothing wrong with speculation, folks. If you don't agree you don't have to be rude about it. There's plenty of threads out there, you don't have stick around ones where you feel your only option is to try and rub other people's noses in shit. Get along or go away.
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  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    A tear escaping a helmet? How emotional… I suppose it saves the comic artist by not having to draw face expressions.
    I mean its a pretty blatant showing of a character, whos described as callous and emotionless since this started, having extreme remorse. I mean Xavier had a literal breakdown over the death of his "kids".

    But regardless I think Xavier has been pretty in character throughout this whole run with the added context of this being the culmination of decades worth of preparation along with the devastating knowledge that the mutant race is "doomed".

  14. #209
    Sad & Brazilian PrezValentine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    A tear escaping a helmet? How emotional… I suppose it saves the comic artist by not having to draw face expressions.
    Yeah, it's a simple display of emotion. It might not be effective for you, but Xavier didn't need to cry like a newborn to show the fact that he felt for their deaths. People have different ways of expressing emotion. Now it sounds like you're just disregarding anything that might go against your point that Xavier is a villain, trying to diss the creative team like that.
    Hunting's no fun when your prey doesn't move.

  15. #210
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    Yeah, it's a simple display of emotion. It might not be effective for you, but Xavier didn't need to cry like a newborn to show the fact that he felt for their deaths. People have different ways of expressing emotion. Now it sounds like you're just disregarding anything that might go against your point that Xavier is a villain, trying to diss the creative team like that.
    The scene doesn't proof Xavier isn't a villain, but that he cares about his x-men.

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