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  1. #211
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    The scene doesn't proof Xavier isn't a villain, but that he cares about his x-men.
    Why would a villian Care about the loss of a group of superheroes?
    GrindrStone(D)

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Again, they're using the black market to save mutants from countries such as Brasil and Russia who A) Use mutant kids as soldiers B) Send them to gulags C) Kill them using Predator X-esque creatures. That's a good enough reason to talk with cartels. It's not an easy situation, no need to look at it from a black and white perspective.
    That isn't a good reason to work for cartels, no reason is. There is no gray when it comes to morality with cartels.

    Also, Emma is not corrupt. She's 100% for helping mutants and established a charity dedicated to "promoting health and well-being for all the people of the Earth".
    Xavier's been pushing her to be more corrupt, she opposed bringing in Shaw and wanted Krakoa to have a democracy. Villains can have those feelings and be corrupt. The best villains have depth and good sides to them. What originally made Magneto a great villain is that he wasn't necessarily wrong, but his methods were monstrous.

    They also do mind what Shaw is doing, read Marauders. They even sank a shipment to teach him a lesson and remind him that they're not doing this to profit but to help mutants.
    That's more of a rivalry, and while they're doing for the right reasons they're not acting like super-heroes doing this. That's why they're called Marauders rather than X-men.

    Sending Sabretooth was a mistake, they still make mistakes lol. Xavier would have been a villain if he said "Go and kill whoever gets between you and the prize" (which in the past for some X-Leaders could also have been a thing, see the various X-Force incarnations) but he didn't. At the end of the day, Creed was punished for what he did.
    That wasn't a minor mistake, it was a horrible decision which any X-man should have seen coming a hundred yards away. Villains come in all shades, that Xavier didn't do what your saying doesn't mean he's not a villain. Only because they put Sabretooth in that position, that's why it was an excuse.

    So no sign of Xavier being a supervillain. He's done way worse in the past too.
    I disagree.

  3. #213
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    I really don't think you've provided substantive reason enough for Xavier being a villain that the burden of proof is on those who believe he isn't one.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    I really don't think you've provided substantive reason enough for Xavier being a villain that the burden of proof is on those who believe he isn't one.
    What's fascinating is how the divisions on Xavier and Krakoa is whether Xavier was viewed as a "good man" or the X-men were "good" pre Krakoa. Those that agree with me are with the former, those who disagree are with the latter. I've provided numerous proof for my stances but if what I say isn't convincing there's not much more I can do about it and vice versa. People think what they want to think.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    What's fascinating is how the divisions on Xavier and Krakoa is whether Xavier was viewed as a "good man" or the X-men were "good" pre Krakoa. Those that agree with me are with the former, those who disagree are with the latter. I've provided numerous proof for my stances but if what I say isn't convincing there's not much more I can do about it and vice versa. People think what they want to think.
    I'm not sure what you mean care to elaborate?

  6. #216
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    That isn't a good reason to work for cartels, no reason is. There is no gray when it comes to morality with cartels.



    Xavier's been pushing her to be more corrupt, she opposed bringing in Shaw and wanted Krakoa to have a democracy. Villains can have those feelings and be corrupt. The best villains have depth and good sides to them. What originally made Magneto a great villain is that he wasn't necessarily wrong, but his methods were monstrous.



    That's more of a rivalry, and while they're doing for the right reasons they're not acting like super-heroes doing this. That's why they're called Marauders rather than X-men.



    That wasn't a minor mistake, it was a horrible decision which any X-man should have seen coming a hundred yards away. Villains come in all shades, that Xavier didn't do what your saying doesn't mean he's not a villain. Only because they put Sabretooth in that position, that's why it was an excuse.



    I disagree.
    It really is a good reason to work with cartels. They're saving lives, a lot of lives, many of which are ending horribly (see Brasil). And they're saving both humans and mutants. It's not like they're smuggling cocaine or something similar, they're bringing in medicines. And they're using the cartels to do that because more "legal" ways have been denied by said governments.

    I still don't see how Emma is corrupt or how Xavier is making her more corrupt. As I said, she even gave up all the money from an entire shipment of Krakoan drugs to prevent Shaw to sell it to people who wouldn't have helped mutants and used them for their own means. It's also rivarly involved of course (she hates Shaw's guts), but in the end it was done to prevent the shipment to go to the wrong people.

    The democracy part is still a possibility, Krakoa has been around for very little time and they need to establish better foundations first. I actually think that Emma will be the one to push for democracy (my speculation of course).

    At this point Emma has helped both humans and mutants, with both the drugs, the Marauders and the charity work. She even helped the Morlocks and she's getting the female mutants of Krakoa tworking together not to be overshadowed by Xavier, Magneto etc. I really don't see the corruption if you look at the facts. One could say she's more heroic and nice than ever.

    We won't agree on the supervillain part about Xavier I guess. I really don't see any villainy from a guy who's actively helping mutants and humans, and who's professed his deep rooted love for humans. And who's actually never done anything bad to them in this new Era. Creed is still a mistake, a big one, but not an active choice to kill those guards. It's still much less villainous than Scott sending X-Force to deal with threats in the past.

  7. #217
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    What's fascinating is how the divisions on Xavier and Krakoa is whether Xavier was viewed as a "good man" or the X-men were "good" pre Krakoa. Those that agree with me are with the former, those who disagree are with the latter.
    I think Xavier is a good but imperfect man, both now and then.

  8. #218
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    What's fascinating is how the divisions on Xavier and Krakoa is whether Xavier was viewed as a "good man" or the X-men were "good" pre Krakoa. Those that agree with me are with the former, those who disagree are with the latter. I've provided numerous proof for my stances but if what I say isn't convincing there's not much more I can do about it and vice versa. People think what they want to think.
    Heavens!!!
    Why in the Goddess' name do you want to convince anyone here to your way of thinking? While you may firmly believe in your own personal ideas, why should any one else? We clearly all love and read the X-Men for different reasons so why should we listen to someone who is trying to "convince" us otherwise?

    You are absolute right about one thing though...People will think what they want to think...as they should.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  9. #219
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Heavens!!!
    Why in the Goddess' name do you want to convince anyone here to your way of thinking? While you may firmly believe in your own personal ideas, why should any one else? We clearly all love and read the X-Men for different reasons so why should we listen to someone who is trying to "convince" us otherwise?

    You are absolute right about one thing though...People will think what they want to think...as they should.
    Who says anything about convincing?
    It is just expressing our views.
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  10. #220
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    Changeling.

  11. #221
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Billy Zane.

  12. #222
    Astonishing Member danielsan52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    Changeling.
    Agree. .........

  13. #223
    Incredible Member Agatha's Ghost's Avatar
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    It is clearly Xorn.

  14. #224
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    How about Chamelion Boy of the LSH.

  15. #225
    Spectacular Member Bgred37's Avatar
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    What it’s Moira in his body? And Moira is in stasis trying to keep herself alive while pushing everything forward as Charles?

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