Are people okay with Wallace West now?

[manwhohaseverything]

That list doesn't have lightray, either. The lengths with which the newgods have been buried is a travesty.

[Starter Set]

Main problem i had, have and always will have with that character is that there already is a Wally West, one well-loved and dearly missed. With a long history.

You know, i don't have any problems with DC adding speedsters. (i don't see the point but it doesn't bother me) And i sure as hell haven't any problems with DC adding a character from a "minority". (as you call it in the states)

But in that case it sure looks as it was purposely done to piss off a part of the fans.

[Dred]

And among those you listed, all but Wally's kids are white

And these are the kids that Wallace's presence diminishes. But no one thought it was racist to get rid of them for a decade. Wallace is also "half-white" for however you were trying to define Wally's kids.

[Tzigone]

Give him a trick or two no one else does that can be his signature, and that'll be enough to start building from

Ah, I actually don't like the outside-speed powers, anyway. I don't like the speed-thief bit or the electokinesis or Bart's scouts. To me, speed was enough. But then I'm known to be on the side of not increasing powers for anyone anymore, basically. And taking a few back to less powerful states. I'm not trying to take Superman back to not being able to fly or anything, but move-mountains-not-planets, Diana not a (demi)goddess, no more Batgod, GL vulnerable to yellow, etc. I get annoyed with heroes who the only way to threaten is to threaten the entire world and that smaller stories are less told now and so forth. And that for so many posters, the solution to making their favorite one of the biggest and best characters is "more power" often explicitly to "most powerful in the DC verse."

[Lightning Rider]

Ah, I actually don't like the outside-speed powers, anyway. I don't like the speed-thief bit or the electokinesis or Bart's scouts. To me, speed was enough. But then I'm known to be on the side of not increasing powers for anyone anymore, basically. And taking a few back to less powerful states. I'm not trying to take Superman back to not being able to fly or anything, but move-mountains-not-planets, Diana not a (demi)goddess, no more Batgod, GL vulnerable to yellow, etc. I get annoyed with heroes who the only way to threaten is to threaten the entire world and that smaller stories are less told now and so forth. And that for so many posters, the solution to making their favorite one of the biggest and best characters is "more power" often explicitly to "most powerful in the DC verse."

I think you can broaden or specify speed abilities without exponentially growing the character's net power. I like subtle differences among GL's and Flashes myself. Especially when they're extensions of the personalities.

That said, I don't think that alone is going to help Wallace distinguish himself. If he ever escapes his poorly conceived purpose, it's going to be with a popular story in a setting that actually sets him apart and fleshes out a personality with traits that don't already apply to 90% of heroes.

[Flash Gordon]

I actually prefer having him around.

[manwhohaseverything]

I would rather have jai and irey in damian and jon's generation than wallace. If i had to choose, wally's twins are actually much better concept than wallace west. He is generic. He is another kid flash.

[Digifiend]

He is faster then bart,toni ho, Negative flash/fast track and the rest of the shazam family for example going by this list.
https://omnigeekempire.com/2018/08/0...cters-ranking/

You mean Avery. Toni Ho is a Marvel character, Rescue II/Iron Patriot III.

This poster had me thinking about Johnny and Jesse Quick, and where they would fit in. Jesse Quick would tap into a mathematical formula that would give him speed, but apparently he was still a lot slower than Jay garrick's moderate speed.
Jesse Quick was brought in, to teach Impulse how to use the speed force. It would be cool if the poster had these four missing heroes in it.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Jonathan_...rs_(New_Earth)
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Jesse_Chambers_(New_Earth)

Your second mention of Jesse should be Johnny, and wasn't Max Mercury Bart's mentor, not Jesse Quick? Jesse was a rookie hero herself, that's why she was on the Titans.

[sifighter]

I would rather have jai and irey in damian and jon's generation than wallace. If i had to choose, wally's twins are actually much better concept than wallace west. He is generic. He is another kid flash.

If they weren’t in the future I’d argue that the tornado twins should be in Damian and Jon’s generation but I’ll take Jai and Iris. They work and Barry’s kids have always been odd anyway for being with the Legion of Superheroes, outside of the recent Young Justice season.

Also now we have Aquaman’s daughter, she’s still a couple month year old baby but hey now we got son of Superman, Batman, the children of the Flash(Wally), and the daughter of Aquaman.

[Blue22]

I would rather have jai and irey in damian and jon's generation than wallace. If i had to choose, wally's twins are actually much better concept than wallace west. He is generic. He is another kid flash.

Man, that would be great. If they had been brought back a little sooner (or...you know...if they hadn't gone away at all) I feel like that could have happened. But now...they're back and I'm SO glad they're back...But I'd like something to be done with them.

[lemonpeace]

I think if you have non-speed powers you really shouldn't count for the Flash Family. A fellow hero, maybe, but speed is the name of the game for the franchise. And there are a lot of ways to play around with speed/motion powers.

I gotta disagree, think the only people in the Flash family that HAVE to be purely speed based are The Flash, everyone else should be fair game. there are a lot you can do with speed powers, but it's not infinite, and it's not super hard for characters to start cribbing other characters "special speed skill" because ultimately they all have the same power.

look at the Green Lanterns, they all are distinct enough but their powers are the exact same, so they all end up serving the same purpose in any given story outside their franchise (even within their franchise sometimes). it just feels pretty arbitrary to have this Flash character be able to use the other forces but that one can't because they're just a little too close to the Flash. it'll only end up being an arbitrary distinction that limits what you can do with these characters and the mythology, and feels dangerously close to that "trying to furiously pretend" thing I was talking about. what should make them Flash family is that their relation to The Flash and operation within the Flash mythology; not just because they run fast. again, if we are talking differentiating these characters, the entire mythos should be on the table.

With Jay it would probably come down to endurance but Jay's not that over the hill, and he's got more experience then most Speedsters. He can keep up with Barry and Wally, which I think says a lot.

eh, compared to someone at least half his age? he's pretty over the hill, and too much so to be offset by his knowledge of the speed seeing as he isn't as "well-read" as Max. Jay could keep pace with Barry and Wally, but not competitively, and definitely not remarkably more so compared to any other speedster.

[Dred]

I gotta disagree, think the only people in the Flash family that HAVE to be purely speed based are The Flash, everyone else should be fair game. there are a lot you can do with speed powers, but it's not infinite, and it's not super hard for characters to start cribbing other characters "special speed skill" because ultimately they all have the same power.

look at the Green Lanterns, they all are distinct enough but their powers are the exact same, so they all end up serving the same purpose in any given story outside their franchise (even within their franchise sometimes). it just feels pretty arbitrary to have this Flash character be able to use the other forces but that one can't because they're just a little too close to the Flash. it'll only end up being an arbitrary distinction that limits what you can do with these characters and the mythology, and feels dangerously close to that "trying to furiously pretend" thing I was talking about. what should make them Flash family is that their relation to The Flash and operation within the Flash mythology; not just because they run fast. again, if we are talking differentiating these characters, the entire mythos should be on the table.

You're kind of missing a fundamental point of the mythos and the Flash family in the first place. The entire creation of the Flash family is tied to their powers coming from the same place. The only ones outside that concept are the family members who don't have powers.

[lemonpeace]

You're kind of missing a fundamental point of the mythos and the Flash family in the first place. The entire creation of the Flash family is tied to their powers coming from the same place. The only ones outside that concept are the family members who don't have powers.

you are conflating what it means to be a speedster with Flash family. Speed isn't the fundamental element of the Flash family, it's the defining element of The Flash and people with the same powers as him. the Flash family aren't the Flash family just because they all have super speed, because like you said there are prominent members of the Flash family who don't have powers; they are Flash family because of their relation to The Flash character within his mythology. the ones who fall into that catergory who have been speedsters had speed/motion powers because that was largely the extent of Flash's mythology at that point in time. however the mythology has expanded, and like when Jay had to be adapted to the speedforce when the mythology expanded back then, the characters need to be allowed to expand with it. Williamson adding the other forces changes the scope of the Flash mythology fundamentally but it doesn't change the Flash mythology fundamentally, nor does letting the characters explore those new aspects.

when DC starts to marginalize large scale concepts that are designed to be significant to of DC's worldbuilding, or try to furiously pretend they didn't happen, it's bad storytelling. it makes their universe feel small, messy, and it's indicative of the kind of shoddy craftsmanship that hurts DC's brand. if they aren't gonna use it then it shouldn't greenlight it, but if something is greenlit, for the integrity of their brand in a creative industry, they need to be obligated work with it. there are too many half-formed and disposed concepts in DC already. they need to start consolidating and effectively utilizing their world.

[Frontier]

I gotta disagree, think the only people in the Flash family that HAVE to be purely speed based are The Flash, everyone else should be fair game. there are a lot you can do with speed powers, but it's not infinite, and it's not super hard for characters to start cribbing other characters "special speed skill" because ultimately they all have the same power.

Most of the Flash Family have either "Flash" in their name or speed-based codenames( "Impulse," "Quick," "Godspeed").

[Dred]

you are conflating what it means to be a speedster with Flash family. Speed isn't the fundamental element of the Flash family, it's the defining element of The Flash and people with the same powers as him. the Flash family aren't the Flash family just because they all have super speed, because like you said there are prominent members of the Flash family who don't have powers; they are Flash family because of their relation to The Flash character within his mythology. the ones who fall into that catergory who have been speedsters had speed/motion powers because that was largely the extent of Flash's mythology at that point in time. however the mythology has expanded, and like when Jay had to be adapted to the speedforce when the mythology expanded back then, the characters need to be allowed to expand with it. Williamson adding the other forces changes the scope of the Flash mythology fundamentally but it doesn't change the Flash mythology fundamentally, nor does letting the characters explore those new aspects.

when DC starts to marginalize large scale concepts that are designed to be significant to of DC's worldbuilding, or try to furiously pretend they didn't happen, it's bad storytelling. it makes their universe feel small, messy, and it's indicative of the kind of shoddy craftsmanship that hurts DC's brand. if they aren't gonna use it then it shouldn't greenlight it, but if something is greenlit, for the integrity of their brand in a creative industry, they need to be obligated work with it. there are too many half-formed and disposed concepts in DC already. they need to start consolidating and effectively utilizing their world.

I wasn't conflating anything. But the founding premise of the Flash family is unifying origin of powers. Jesse is not related to Max, Jay is not related to XS, etc etc. I've never seen someone say The Flash is small or messy and, frankly, all this "new" mythology you're parroting is examples of the stories and mythology being worse than when they were more focused. I mean they're here, I guess, but that doesn't make them good. There's lots of really bad ideas The Flash has thrown away, and lots of bad ones that are still around.