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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Cause at the end of the day when shit dies down I know and marvel knows they'll still push their comics cause they need the money and their not dumb, that money goes both ways.
    OK, so when they do get print back up and running and they halt all digital production until print gets caught up to where digital is, will you complain then? There's no way they're going to drop 2-3 months (if not more) worth of books all at once on print readers.

    Or will digital forever be multiple months ahead of print? Because most print readers won't keep reading then because everything will be spoiled for them by digital readers all the time, so what's the point? The only other option is to abandon all comic-related websites and social media.

    Making digital available now isn't some magic wand to fix this. I get you want to read your books. So do I. But I (and, by all metrics about 90% of comic readers) are not going to make something I enjoy unenjoyable by forcing myself to read it in a way I don't like. You're sacrificing the majority to satisfy the minority for short-term gain.
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  2. #77
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Look at the bigger picture. So print is 90% of sales and digital is 10%? What about profits? Don't they get a bigger share of the money with digital? If they get only 10% profit on print, but get 50% profit on digital, then they wouldn't need that 90% to switch to digital. They'd only need 18%.


    Where are you getting 10% profit on print and 50% profit on digital???

    Print has publishing costs, and digital has hosting / software costs. Print has Diamond distribution, and digital has Comixology distribution.

    And even with these questionable percentages, how are you getting 18%?? Are you saying they only have to sell 28% digitally to = selling 90% print???
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    OK, so when they do get print back up and running and they halt all digital production until print gets caught up to where digital is, will you complain then? There's no way they're going to drop 2-3 months (if not more) worth of books all at once on print readers.

    Or will digital forever be multiple months ahead of print? Because most print readers won't keep reading then because everything will be spoiled for them by digital readers all the time, so what's the point? The only other option is to abandon all comic-related websites and social media.

    Making digital available now isn't some magic wand to fix this. I get you want to read your books. So do I. But I (and, by all metrics about 90% of comic readers) are not going to make something I enjoy unenjoyable by forcing myself to read it in a way I don't like. You're sacrificing the majority to satisfy the minority for short-term gain.
    Take whatever you do digitally and only release that as trade or depending on the story length a oversized $10 floppy that finishes that story. So you don't have to delay one or the other.

    When you restart-you are printing out a new story line arc.

  4. #79
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Where are you getting 10% profit on print and 50% profit on digital???

    Print has publishing costs, and digital has hosting / software costs. Print has Diamond distribution, and digital has Comixology distribution.

    And even with these questionable percentages, how are you getting 18%?? Are you saying they only have to sell 28% digitally to = selling 90% print???
    I don't know the exact percentages, those were just example numbers, but digital definitely does yield more profit per sale.

    And yes, if those numbers were right, then they'd only need another 18% on top of the existing 10% to make the same money as they do now.

    Ah, here we go, thanks to Jim Zub...


    http://www.jimzub.com/the-reality-of...-owned-comics/
    http://www.jimzub.com/okay-but-what-...igital-comics/

    The actual numbers are a bit lower than my example 50%, but they certainly could make the same money with only half the number of readers.
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  5. #80
    Incredible Member Journey's Avatar
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    So from this data we could say it's a reasonable risk to take and their afraid at the moment by not going digital.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Cause at the end of the day when shit dies down I know and marvel knows they'll still push their comics cause they need the money and their not dumb, that money goes both ways.
    Again though it comes down to if Disney looks at the money they are making and decides if it is even enough to keep comics as we know them going. Disney has lost bucket loads of money during this problem and there stock holders are going to be calling for action and in the bigger scheme of things the comic division is pretty low in the list as far as Disney goes. They just use the comics as IP farms for movies and TV, and they could shut down the comics tomorrow and still have enough IP's to go for the next 50 years without publishing another comic.

  7. #82
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    I have no interest in digital. Part of the appeal is the issue in your hands.

  8. #83
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    I don't know the exact percentages, those were just example numbers, but digital definite%l% y does yield more profit per sale.

    And yes, if those numbers were right, then they'd only need another 18% on top of the existing 10% to make the same money as they do now.

    Ah, here we go, thanks to Jim Zub...


    http://www.jimzub.com/the-reality-of...-owned-comics/
    http://www.jimzub.com/okay-but-what-...igital-comics/

    The actual numbers are a bit lower than my example 50%, but they certainly could make the same money with only half the number of readers.
    A bit lower than 50%?? 12% is not a BIT a lower than 50%. And according to this chart, the profit for both print and digital for the publishers is about the same. 11% vs 12%. In fact, these charts supports more what I've been saying about digital. And if you read the Zub post, it basically says what I said:


    Quote Originally Posted by Zub
    People assume that digital content should be much cheaper because it has no physical component, but there are development and infrastructure costs that go into creating and maintaining a digital platform. It’s hard to say whether they’re equivalent, but right now the pricing is relatively equal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Zub
    Each publisher has their own digital rates and it varies quite a bit from what I’ve been hearing. In some cases publishers don’t offer any percentage of digital sales to the creative team on a creator-owned title. Other than that unfortunate scenario, some publishers are making the same amount they would on a print copy (11-12%), while on the higher end the amount is split evenly between the two.
    The Digital Only crowd should also pay attention to what Zub says about people buying on sales, which most people do, and what the Digital Only crowd wants, i.e. lower prices than print copies. They would then have to sell THREE TIMES more. So, not only do publishers have make the numbers of copies sold (90% print vs 10% digital), but they'll have to multiply by whatever the price cut will be -- probably THREE TIMES more.

    So, if a book sells 50,000 print, it will have to sell 150,000 lower priced digital to equal the profit the publisher makes on that book. IOW, they'd have to go from 5000 digital buyers, to 150,000 digital buyers, which is not an increase of 18%, but an increase of 2900%.


    Of course, these charts are 8 years old, and they don't really apply to Marvel and DC, since this breakdown is for LOW PRINT RUN, CREATOR OWNED TITLES. That's not Marvel. I'm sure their printing is cheaper.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm911 View Post
    Just for clarification (and I apologize in advance if it's already been stated in the thread) but Diamond Comic Distributors doesn't actually "manufacture" the comics from the publishers they do business with. As their full name implies, Diamond just distributes the books from the publishers to the shops that sell them. The publishers themselves are in charge of printing their own books, which they then usually hand over to Diamond (who take the role as the middle man) in order for them to send the books/merchandise/toys to all the comic shops that they do business with. So in this case the publishers act as Diamond's "venders" while the LCS's are their customers.

    And because Diamond isn't currently accepting anything from they vendors (aka the publishers like Marvel, DC, and Image) then their not receiving any new orders from their customers (the local comic shops). This is causing a financial strain on Diamond and they stated that they won't be able to pay their vendors this month. So if this trend continues in the coming weeks or months, no matter what all three sides of the comic industry (the publishers, the distributor, and the comic shops) will be in quite a financial problem. So it's only a matter of time when something's got to give.
    Exactly my point from earlier.

    Marvel and DC are quite large but I don’t know if they’ve ever stressed their operating capital (in any fictional scenario) to the point of not selling any comics at all for an extended period of time.

    As others mentioned, other forms of entertainment producers are still making “some” revenue via other forms of distribution be it streaming or what not. But Marvel and DC and other publishers simply can’t remain in an almost entirely dormant state for an extended period of time. Neither can Diamond for that matter, so something’s going to give. I don’t know what form it will take but it will have to happen or else comics will experience another shake up like the one witnessed in the 90s when multiple distributors simply gave way and Diamond remained standing.
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  10. #85
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Pretty much. Marvel rescheduling their books for next month was ludicrously optimistic since it's clear the nightmare won't be over by then. Eventually, someone is gonna start trying to bring in some revenue. I just think neither Marvel nor DC wanna take the plunge and be the first after seeing the initial retailer backlash.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    I don't know the exact percentages, those were just example numbers, but digital definitely does yield more profit per sale.
    That is for small creator owned stuff. Marvel/DC printing is way cheaper that that estimate.

    There is one thing that is probably not too variable, and that is that in both cases about 65% is taken, leaving around 35% for the publisher (breaking out creative is not important here, creative gets no 'cut'). Printing costs for the Big 2 are probably closer to 4%.

  12. #87
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    A bit lower than 50%?? 12% is not a BIT a lower than 50%. And according to this chart, the profit for both print and digital for the publishers is about the same. 11% vs 12%. In fact, these charts supports more what I've been saying about digital. And if you read the Zub post, it basically says what I said:

    Of course, these charts are 8 years old, and they don't really apply to Marvel and DC, since this breakdown is for LOW PRINT RUN, CREATOR OWNED TITLES. That's not Marvel. I'm sure their printing is cheaper.
    I assumed that for work for hire stuff, the section labelled as for the creative team is also part of the publisher share? Which makes it 23%, not 12%. The basic principle still applies.

    Also, on the print chart, the publisher and creative team shares are combined. You should be comparing the combined 23% on the digital chart to that 11%.
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  13. #88
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Nothing again on April 8.
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  14. #89
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    Nevermind. Ignore

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Nothing again on April 8.
    I sure hope this means some work is going on behind the scenes. I understand this is not a high priority thing but I hope they can come up with a way to release something digitally and not undermine the retailers.

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