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  1. #46
    Incredible Member Journey's Avatar
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    Okay one Zoom exist for a reason and some apps make the comic reading experience really pleasent. 2 now isn't the time to be concerned with trading, and interacting with people. Pushing digital comics is the most logical thing to do it's a lot smarter than doing nothing and making no money. If people are still so gung ho on physical copies they can just wait it out and purchase when we get back to the new normal , which could take months to happen mind you, it's a practical solution. Local Comic shops will just have to suck it up like all the other non essential businesses that have been shut down. They can't be mad at Marvel for keeping buisness going and even if they are Disney won't give a damn after a while all they care about is money. 10% is better than 0 any day of the week.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Why is everyone so against the digital adjustment solution? I just don't understand it's so convenient to have everything conveniently downloaded in your phone/tablet.
    It gets annoying to look at a screen all the time. Especially after you spent 8 hours doing it at work.

    I am trying comixology for 60 days to see books I didn't see in comic book stores.

    But what Reviresco said is pretty much the same for me. Yeah they take up space but I have done a lot with those books at school and with students. Hard to do that with a tablet especially when you students don't have them.

    Marvel tried that in the 90s and nearly got bankrupted.
    Marvel has Disney who has Disney Publishing Worldwide.

    Disney could tell Diamond to go bleep themselves if they wanted to. While they might not be comics-they can put these in another format that bypasses comic book stores.

  3. #48
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Do you really think everyone that reads comics has a tablet or a computer or a smart phone or the internet / data plan to use it?

    Or if you do have any of those things, do you really want to spend your down time looking at another screen, when you've spent way too much time at work forced to stare at a screen?

    And who the heck wants to read a comic on their phone??? Is your phone the size of a comic?

    And who wants to pay the same amount for a rental (cause you aren't really buying the book) for the price of a physical copy.

    You can't sell, or trade, a digitally lent comic. And trust me, there's alot of that going on now.

    I like collecting comics and the interactions that come with that.

    No one at Comixology knows my name.


    And finally, I'd like for comics to continue be made. Anyone that is advocating the publishers dump the LCBS and go straight to digital is basically asking for the death of the comics industry. There's no way, even in this mess, that publishers will make anywhere near the same amount of money with digital only. Digital compromises only 10+% of the market. Publishers simply can't survive on that. Can you survive on 10% of your salary?
    Could it make the companies more conservative as well?
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  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Why is everyone so against the digital adjustment solution? I just don't understand it's so convenient to have everything conveniently downloaded in your phone/tablet.
    Just like with every other digital format for me it comes down to you never really own anything. If say Comixology went under tomorrow every issue you have ever rented (and that is what your doing renting not buying) is gone. I own the physical copy and the only way I lose it is if I get rid of it. Plus reading comics on your phone sucks.

  5. #50
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    Zero Hunter and Reviresco sum up my thoughts on this.
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  6. #51
    Mighty Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Just like with every other digital format for me it comes down to you never really own anything. If say Comixology went under tomorrow every issue you have ever rented (and that is what your doing renting not buying) is gone. I own the physical copy and the only way I lose it is if I get rid of it. Plus reading comics on your phone sucks.
    The indie publishers like Image and IDW let you download offline copies of their books from ComiXology in a variety of formats. I prefer PDF comics backups for accessibility across different machines. This is how I kept my digital collection of Sonic the Hedgehog comics from Archie, even after they lost the licence from Sega. Every issue of Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic Universe, Knuckles the Echidna and Mega Man that ComiXology had all safe and sound on my computer's hard drive in PDF. It's only Marvel and DC's anti-consumer practises that don't offer digital readers the same protection.

  7. #52
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Okay one Zoom exist for a reason and some apps make the comic reading experience really pleasent. 2 now isn't the time to be concerned with trading, and interacting with people. Pushing digital comics is the most logical thing to do it's a lot smarter than doing nothing and making no money. If people are still so gung ho on physical copies they can just wait it out and purchase when we get back to the new normal , which could take months to happen mind you, it's a practical solution. Local Comic shops will just have to suck it up like all the other non essential businesses that have been shut down. They can't be mad at Marvel for keeping buisness going and even if they are Disney won't give a damn after a while all they care about is money. 10% is better than 0 any day of the week.

    1) Comics are not meant to be read with zoom or guided view. It's worse than watching a movie with pan and scan. If I wanted to read comics with zoom, I'd just read a comic strip.

    2) NOW is obviously the time that people want to interact with fellow fans. I prefer person to person interactions, rather than electronic interactions, and I get that from LCBS. I miss it and hope that my store, and others, can survive this mess. And you left out the now important part of collecting physical copies. You can SELL them when you need money, something plenty of people are worried about right now. You can't sell an old digital file, that doesn't even belong to you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Pushing digital comics is the most logical thing to do it's a lot smarter than doing nothing and making no money. If people are still so gung ho on physical copies they can just wait it out and purchase when we get back to the new normal , which could take months to happen mind you, it's a practical solution. Local Comic shops will just have to suck it up like all the other non essential businesses that have been shut down. They can't be mad at Marvel for keeping buisness going and even if they are Disney won't give a damn after a while all they care about is money. 10% is better than 0 any day of the week.
    Have you heard of delayed gratification, and how it contributes to success?

    Again, would you work 40 hours a week for only 10% of your salary? Or would you use that 40 hours to find a way to make your full salary? Or get a new job? There's a certain point amount of profitability any company has to have, if it is going to survive. 10% of what it made last week, is NOT it. They'd be better off closing up and doing something else. Or they'd have to reduce their staff and output by 90%.

    How does giving you new digital comics NOW, and to hell with anyone else, push digital comics? All it does is pander to 10% of the fans, and help destroy 90% of a guaranteed market. If physical copy fans can wait it out, and LCBS can just suck it up and go out of business, I think it is only fair that digital only fans get the same treatment and have to wait it out with the rest of us.

    What you describe as 'pushing digital' is NOT the most logical thing to do, if it will harm the majority of your income stream, i.e. the LCBS. Grabbing at 10% now is like ... immediately eating your hand, because you're hungry instead of spending the time to go fishing or hunting or berry gathering with two hands. So, no. I don't think that's logical or smart. It's not a plan, it's a short term, unsustainable, instant gratification reaction.
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  8. #53
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Just like with every other digital format for me it comes down to you never really own anything. If say Comixology went under tomorrow every issue you have ever rented (and that is what your doing renting not buying) is gone. I own the physical copy and the only way I lose it is if I get rid of it. Plus reading comics on your phone sucks.
    I have a foot in both worlds but my preference is still reading the printed comic books. I do find it convenient that when I am staying in a hotel or something that I can read stuff on my IPad, as long as I'm not in one of those hotels that charges an arm and a leg for their internet access! Yes, it is getting to be a nuisance storing stuff in the boxes and I may thin that out. I have a pretty good collection of Marvel Masterworks, an omnibus or two and other TPBs also so again, I want to have that physical copy.

  9. #54
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    The indie publishers like Image and IDW let you download offline copies of their books from ComiXology in a variety of formats. I prefer PDF comics backups for accessibility across different machines. This is how I kept my digital collection of Sonic the Hedgehog comics from Archie, even after they lost the licence from Sega. Every issue of Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic Universe, Knuckles the Echidna and Mega Man that ComiXology had all safe and sound on my computer's hard drive in PDF. It's only Marvel and DC's anti-consumer practises that don't offer digital readers the same protection.
    That's true. Image and IDW and a few others do let you download files of the comics. But they are a very small percentage of the comic industry, and an outlier of digital media. Because it's not just Marvel and DC who 'lend' digital files. It's practically every digital media company out there from music to movies to books.
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  10. #55
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    1) Comics are not meant to be read with zoom or guided view. It's worse than watching a movie with pan and scan. If I wanted to read comics with zoom, I'd just read a comic strip.

    2) NOW is obviously the time that people want to interact with fellow fans. I prefer person to person interactions, rather than electronic interactions, and I get that from LCBS. I miss it and hope that my store, and others, can survive this mess. And you left out the now important part of collecting physical copies. You can SELL them when you need money, something plenty of people are worried about right now. You can't sell an old digital file, that doesn't even belong to you.




    Have you heard of delayed gratification, and how it contributes to success?

    Again, would you work 40 hours a week for only 10% of your salary? Or would you use that 40 hours to find a way to make your full salary? Or get a new job? There's a certain point amount of profitability any company has to have, if it is going to survive. 10% of what it made last week, is NOT it. They'd be better off closing up and doing something else. Or they'd have to reduce their staff and output by 90%.

    How does giving you new digital comics NOW, and to hell with anyone else, push digital comics? All it does is pander to 10% of the fans, and help destroy 90% of a guaranteed market. If physical copy fans can wait it out, and LCBS can just suck it up and go out of business, I think it is only fair that digital only fans get the same treatment and have to wait it out with the rest of us.

    What you describe as 'pushing digital' is NOT the most logical thing to do, if it will harm the majority of your income stream, i.e. the LCBS. Grabbing at 10% now is like ... immediately eating your hand, because you're hungry instead of spending the time to go fishing or hunting or berry gathering with two hands. So, no. I don't think that's logical or smart. It's not a plan, it's a short term, unsustainable, instant gratification reaction.
    And not to mention that comic books represented over $500 million in sales to comic shops in 2019. The top seller last year was DCs Detective Comics at over 500 thousand, with international sales it was 600,000. And that issue cost $9.99 So I don't see the comic book itself going away unless that changes. Many of the local shops I go to have comic books, the TPBs and omnibus, plus action figures, etc. Back issues also but those don't move as fast unless you have something like Wolverine's 1st appearance in the Incredible Hulk. My brother sold that one for a couple of hundred and it wasn't graded or anything. We didn't have bags and boards when we were kids but it was in pretty good shape. He had moved the comics out of my parent's basement and did store them properly at his house

  11. #56
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Just saw this. ComicHub's plan to distribute comics will not be implemented

    "The ComicHub advance digital reader copy initiative isn’t going to move forward right now,” retailer John Hendrick of Big Bang Comics told Newsarama. "Unfortunately publishers who were interested in joining the platform now aren’t and we can 100% understand their decision despite the positive reception by customers and creators. This might not have been a long-term solution but we didn’t need it to be one. We just needed it to tide us over until the industry returns to normal. Whenever that is but hopefully soon."

  12. #57
    Mighty Member Kintor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    That's true. Image and IDW and a few others do let you download files of the comics. But they are a very small percentage of the comic industry, and an outlier of digital media. Because it's not just Marvel and DC who 'lend' digital files. It's practically every digital media company out there from music to movies to books.
    If we're talking strictly ComiXology then Marvel and DC are the outliers. Just about every other Western publisher on the platform allows their comics to be downloaded as DRM free backups. It's honestly something that gives the Indies an edge on ComiXology, they aren't beholden to the rampant paranoia about piracy that seems to dictate Marvel and DC's behaviour.

    Even if there were no digital comics anymore that would only delay digital piracy of print comics by about 12 hours at best. At least the Indies put in more of an effort to maintain good relationships with their digital readerships. Perhaps then it'll be someone like Image or IDW that changes tack first and starts publishing digital issues again; the moribund direct market be damned.
    Last edited by Kintor; 04-02-2020 at 10:34 PM.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    1) Comics are not meant to be read with zoom or guided view. It's worse than watching a movie with pan and scan. If I wanted to read comics with zoom, I'd just read a comic strip.

    2) NOW is obviously the time that people want to interact with fellow fans. I prefer person to person interactions, rather than electronic interactions, and I get that from LCBS. I miss it and hope that my store, and others, can survive this mess. And you left out the now important part of collecting physical copies. You can SELL them when you need money, something plenty of people are worried about right now. You can't sell an old digital file, that doesn't even belong to you.




    Have you heard of delayed gratification, and how it contributes to success?

    Again, would you work 40 hours a week for only 10% of your salary? Or would you use that 40 hours to find a way to make your full salary? Or get a new job? There's a certain point amount of profitability any company has to have, if it is going to survive. 10% of what it made last week, is NOT it. They'd be better off closing up and doing something else. Or they'd have to reduce their staff and output by 90%.

    How does giving you new digital comics NOW, and to hell with anyone else, push digital comics? All it does is pander to 10% of the fans, and help destroy 90% of a guaranteed market. If physical copy fans can wait it out, and LCBS can just suck it up and go out of business, I think it is only fair that digital only fans get the same treatment and have to wait it out with the rest of us.

    What you describe as 'pushing digital' is NOT the most logical thing to do, if it will harm the majority of your income stream, i.e. the LCBS. Grabbing at 10% now is like ... immediately eating your hand, because you're hungry instead of spending the time to go fishing or hunting or berry gathering with two hands. So, no. I don't think that's logical or smart. It's not a plan, it's a short term, unsustainable, instant gratification reaction.
    No other industry is stopping their digital distribution because the physical side of things is shut down, new games are being released on Steam, Epic, GOG etc. new music is being released on iTunes, Google etc. new books are being released on Kindle etc. Why should comics be different? Why do we have to stop everything in order to protect the shops? do you really think music stores, book stores, game stores are that much less vulnerable to all this? and not to mention the damage it could cause for creators if they are told to stop working, which has already happened for smaller publishers, though Marvel has not yet done this, but they can't just keep paying for pages with no intent to publish them in the near future forever. The creators are freelancers, they are ineligible for unemployment, so they will be hit harder by that than a lot of people, and there are hundreds of them, we're not just talking the writers and artists, but also the letterers, inkers, colourists etc. Why should they suffer to protect the shops?

    Digital isn't barred to anyone, if they published digitally, no one is stopping you or anyone else from reading them, so the have/have not argument kind of falls apart. if you don't get the books digitally, it's because you made a choice, not because of anything forced on you. the proposal that one guy had with a digital copy that could be traded in for a paper copy could have prevented somewhat, that but nooo, the retailers didn't want that. If you are posting on this forum, you can access comixology and read the books there. I get that this is exactly what the comic shops are afraid of, but I care more about the bigger picture than just the shops, and those shops are going to be closed during the pandemic regardless of anything the publishers do, anyway. Some can operate as mail order, if they're already set up for that kind of thing (Midtown, which Marvel already ships to directly for their subscription issues, so would not be that hard to just up the numbers Mile High, DCBS and the like), but mostly, shops are going to be closed during the pandemic, some will close permanently, and there is nothing that can be done about that. Stopping digital will not fix that, it will only increase the harm this situation causes.

    Even if every single comic shop closed forever (which is not something i am advocating for, nor is it something I think will happen, I think their fear of digital is wildly overblown) then that isn't the industry just vanishing, a lot of those readers WILL migrate to digital, start up subscriptions, or switch to trades. I doubt most readers are so incredibly stubborn about things that they would walk away forever because comic shops closed. Comics will survive, even if comic shops don't.

    edited to add - Also, you don't have to use Guided View if you don't want to. I don't. it's mostly there for people reading on phones, if you're on a tablet, or the website, it's easier to just keep the full page open. So yeah, even if i bought the whole 'meant to be read a certain way' argument (I don't) this isn't something that is forced on anyone.
    Last edited by Raye; 04-03-2020 at 03:43 AM.

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Why is everyone so against the digital adjustment solution? I just don't understand it's so convenient to have everything conveniently downloaded in your phone/tablet.
    People have explained this so, so many times if you really want to know then go reread the thread(s).

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    No other industry is stopping their digital distribution because the physical side of things is shut down, new games are being released on Steam, Epic, GOG etc. new music is being released on iTunes, Google etc. new books are being released on Kindle etc. Why should comics be different?
    But which of those industries has had production and shipping ceased? People keep trying to make this comparison, but if Diamond was shipping and printers were printing, comics would be out there right now.

    (The closest comparison is Movies, which a lot of production has shut down, and theaters are closed. 99% of movies are getting postponed, not going straight to VOD)

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