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  1. #31
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Iron Man 3 made over a Billion dollars only some comic book fans had an issue with Mandarin.
    I would have thought that the Rise of the Skywalker would have ended this line of thinking. The Last Jedi made over a billion dollars too and has a high RT score, but because of the divisive fan reaction to that film its now universally agreed upon that films poor reception caused Disney to panic and produce a subpar sequal.

    The thing with the Mandarin too is we know that Marvel is specifically aware of the backlash because they produced that short, a in-universe comic, and isn't the 'actual' Mandarin going to be in that Shang Chi film?

    Wonder Woman's Ares fight was met with critism by even some mainstream critics. No one felt it ruined the movie just that it felt like Patty Jenkins film got highjacked for a few minutes by Zack Snyder.
    Nearly every superhero film nowadays has a cgi boss fight at the end, it has nothing to do with Zack Snyder.
    Last edited by Pinsir; 04-03-2020 at 01:13 PM.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    If Wonder Woman was a high fantasy film, the 3rd Act would be seen in a better light. The psychedelic CGI-fest felt unnecessary as a conclusion to the first two acts.
    It's a movie about an Amazon demigod from an island of immortal warrior women created by gods who is chosen to defeat an evil god who wants to destroy the world. You can hardly get more high fantasy than that.

  3. #33
    Incredible Member Marvelgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    It's a movie about an Amazon demigod from an island of immortal warrior women created by gods who is chosen to defeat an evil god who wants to destroy the world. You can hardly get more high fantasy than that.
    Unlike High Fantasy, Wonder Woman takes place in the real world. Not only a real world, the historic event of World War 1. For 2/3 of the movie, Jenkins kept every battle scaled back for Diana. The third act was were she lost some control. I know it showed how powerful Diana is, but the 3rd act is not as good as the 2nd act.



    The 2nd act battle was the best part of the film with a better climax.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    Unlike High Fantasy, Wonder Woman takes place in the real world. Not only a real world, the historic event of World War 1. For 2/3 of the movie, Jenkins kept every battle scaled back for Diana. The third act was were she lost some control. I know it showed how powerful Diana is, but the 3rd act is not as good as the 2nd act.



    The 2nd act battle was the best part of the film with a better climax.
    Be that as it may, there was nothing out of place about the climax. Ares was set up from the very beginning.

  5. #35
    Mighty Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    It's a movie about an Amazon demigod from an island of immortal warrior women created by gods who is chosen to defeat an evil god who wants to destroy the world. You can hardly get more high fantasy than that.
    Most of those movies don’t lampshade the ludicrous idea that everything will be resolved in a single battle against a supervillain, only to go ahead and have that battle anyway.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    Most of those movies don’t lampshade the ludicrous idea that everything will be resolved in a single battle against a supervillain, only to go ahead and have that battle anyway.
    It's called set up and payoff. The "lampshading" amounted to mentioning that Ares was involved. That was the extent of it.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 04-03-2020 at 04:57 AM.

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    Most of those movies don’t lampshade the ludicrous idea that everything will be resolved in a single battle against a supervillain, only to go ahead and have that battle anyway.
    Not everything is resolved with the battle with the supervillain.

    Even with Ares being defeated, it's not as if mankind didn't go ahead and have another world war all on its own. The lesson Diana learned still holds up.

  8. #38
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Not everything is resolved with the battle with the supervillain.

    Even with Ares being defeated, it's not as if mankind didn't go ahead and have another world war all on its own. The lesson Diana learned still holds up.
    Yeah, Ares was just helping to make the conflict worse, which was why Diana needed to stop him. By then it wasn't about single-handedly stopping the war but proving him wrong by Diana's belief in love and humanity.

  9. #39
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    I wanted to post about this before, but I realized that I had to rewatch WONDER WOMAN, yet again, to be sure of my facts. I wanted to look at the left to right and right to left movement of the characters on screen.

    In film language, it's a common conceit that movement from left of the screen to right of the screen is forward movement and movement from right to left is backward movement. When heroes are on a journey, they move from the left to right, mainly--and if they go in the opposite direction, it often indicates they are retreating (obviously these rules don't always hold true in movies, given there are reverse angle shots as well).

    And psychologically, studies have shown we perceive right to left movement as negative, but right to left movement as positive. So when a character moves to the left side of the screen, there's trepidation. But when they go toward the right side, it's encouraging.

    In the intro of WONDER WOMAN, Diana walks from left to right on the screen as she heads to the Louvre. Meanwhile, the Wayne truck--which is bringing the photograph from Diana's past--travels from right to left of the screen.

    When we transition to the first part of Diana's flashback origin story, on the island of Themyscira, characters often move from right to left. For example, young Diana on her horse rides from the right to the left of the screen. Themyscira is a left side place--Steve Trevor and the Germans from the SMS Schwaben arrive on the right of the screen, while the island is on the left. The battle between the Amazons and German invaders is a battle between the left side and the right side (ancient and modern).

    When Diana leaps across the chasm to get her sword, shield and armour from the tower, the tower is on the left side and Diana is on the right side. If the tower holds things from the Amazons' past, Diana must leap into this past place to retrieve her accoutrements from there.

    When Steve and Diana leave the island on the boat, they are now headed out toward what lies on the right of the screen--the future. [0:40:00]*

    In the second part, arriving in London, whenever they make progress and head toward the war, Diana, Steve and their Irregulars move across the screen to the right. When they are delayed in this effort, they move to the left. In the No Man's Land scene, the Allies are on the left side and the Germans are on the right side. Diana crosses from left to right, across No Man's Land. And most of her action scenes are left to right--she runs and attacks, most often, in this direction.

    Having saved the people of Veld, Steve, Diana and the Irregulars can relax for the evening. Steve and Diana dance, snow falls and they go night-night. [1:29:00]

    The third part of the movie finds our heroes the next morning preparing to sneak into Ludendorff's castle. Travelling there from the town, they go left to right. After the ball, Diana rides her horse, right to left, back to the town but everyone has died from Ludendorff's gas attack. All her success in the second part is undone in the third part. The reversal of movement matches the reversal of fortune.

    Ludendorff's airfield, where the planes are being prepared for a massive gas attack that will slaughter everyone, seems to be in the other direction from the town, as now Diana (on horse), Steve (on motorcycle, Steve McQueen style) and the Irregulars all have to travel from right to left. This seems to indicate that Diana is going in the wrong direction as she follows a path that goes against what she ought to stand for (i.e. peace and love).

    At the airfield, she kills Ludendorff with her sword and we see an explosion--which seems to be when Sir Bubble and Squeak/Ares actually appeared on the scene (if he wasn't already there). And this suggests that Diana's act of murder feeds the god of war. Steve arrives to try and convince Diana to go with him, but she turns him away, distrusting him and all mankind. Then Ares appears to Diana, but still in his Lord Clotted Cream form [1:48:00]. While those two converse, Steve and the Irregulars try to save humanity from the gas attack which is going ahead.

    Steve goes on his self-sacrificing mission, after having given his watch to Diana [1:57:00]. The plane heads left to right. Ares is bedecked in his godly armour [1:58:00] and this seems to be the "video game" portion of the battle that some are down on. But really, he's all armoured up and looking like the Perez Ares, with only the Thewlis voice. Meanwhile, the Irregulars are doing their heroic work on the ground, which is not a video game.

    Steve's plane blows up and Diana erupts in rage, heading right to left across the screen, taking out every soldier in her way. Ares seems to feed off all of her anger and hatred. However, Diana flashes back to her good-bye scene with Steve and comes to her senses. She overcomes her hate and embraces love. At this point Ares seems weakened, he loses his helmet and now he's David Thewlis. Maybe this is the part that people don't like because he has a David Thewlis head and an Ares armoured body--but to me this shows Ares is losing in his effort to corrupt Diana's nature. She leaps into the air and delivers the lightning coup de grâce and Ares goes out in an explosive burst [2:06:00].

    The Irregulars and the Germans are relieved as a new dawn comes and they are free from the horrors of battle. Cut to celebrations of the armistice in London and Diana looking at Steve's memorial photo.

    In the outro, after writing her email to Bruce Wayne, Diana leaps into action, right to left, over the city of Paris. In the opposite direction from how she first entered the movie.

    *[time codes are approximate]
    “Th-th-th-that's all folks!”

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Calling it the third act is a bit misleading. I timed it once and I think the part with WW against godded-up Ares is about ten minutes of the movie.
    Third acts are typically the shortest part of the script, whether stage or screen. Suggesting that acts must be equally divided by time is not viable. Acts are divided by story progression.

    I would have fixed the third act by fixing the first two acts. WW gains whatever abilities she needs to win the fight, rather than having them be set up and established earlier. She just suddenly realizes she can fly, for example, even though there's nothing in the movie prior to suggest that she has such an ability.

  11. #41
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    Well, you know, I watched the whole movie over again and took notes and broke it all down, just so I could figure out for myself what the timing was and how the structure worked. So having done all that work, I stand by my opinion. I think the fact that I would do all that shows I respect everyone else's opinion, too.
    “Th-th-th-that's all folks!”

  12. #42
    Boo! From The Shadows's Avatar
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    I didn't hate it as much as others and I actually kind of enjoyed the fight despite the villain being laughable. I've also scene worst CGI.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I'd be pissed if we didn't get Ares. I can see the logic in saying it's a copout, but the film makes clear that he doesn't make mankind do what they do, he just takes advantage and fans the flames a bit. But a superhero movie without one of Diana's major antagonists, specifically the best one suited for her origin, would be a massive ripoff.

    The major problem is the actor is not physically suited to play Ares, at least after he armors up. Thewlis worked great for an unassuming mortal disguise, but they should have gone full Perez with the armored look and not have anything visible inside the helmet besides the glowing red eyes. Get a bigger actor to do the motions for that, but keep Thewlis for the voice. It is very cheesy seeing the inside of that helmet with that mustache lol.
    They should have gotten Clancy Brown for Ares in his true form. I mean the guy must be nearing 70 now but he is still looking though enough to break someone in two^^

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    Bragging about terrible movies making over a billion dollars. You are proving Scorsese's point right about MCU movies.


    To Infinity Wars been mostly 97% CGI for all acts of the film. Endgame committed more CGI crimes in the 3rd Act.

    The 3rd act of Wonder Woman was criticised as it felt overblown compared to the first and second act, the movie never set itself up for such a final fight, but make no mistake,wonder Woman is not a bad film. Iron Man 3 is a bad film that set out to be one.
    could you please stop making up your opinion as fact? It is getting beyond tiresome. But at least you have one thing in common with Scorsese than.

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    How would you have done the 3rd act differently with Diana and Ares?
    I wouldn't, it's fine the way it is.

    I remember being in the theater feeling a bit disappointed that there would be no Ares after all.. but suprise! There he was hiding in plain sight. It was awesome. My only issue would be that it seemed Diana was floating.. but how? lol

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