DC's mid tier (powerwise) heroes are kind of lacking.

[LordAllMIghty]

I agree with almost everything you offer, but Mr. Miracle is a toughie. He IS a New God, but only rarely uses his full abilities, even when his life's at stake.

I wanna say he is around Spider-man level...when not enhanced by his New God powers.

So then, now that we have a bit of a definition of the tier, who are all DC's high tier and mid tier heroes?

For me, based on showing and Ascended Tier system...
20200407_171056.jpg

[Ascended]

I agree with almost everything you offer, but Mr. Miracle is a toughie. He IS a New God, but only rarely uses his full abilities, even when his life's at stake.

I know, right? Scott's rarely shown at the same raw power levels as other New Gods, but....he's still a New God.

I think....I dunno, I kind of resolve it in my own head by thinking that, yknow, Scott grew up in the slave pits. He didn't get fed right, he was constantly abused and tortured.....he's the underfed runt of the liter. And his powerset is about as subtle as you can get in comics. I mean, how do you express the idea that he's a New God, and therefore a multiversal entity well beyond mortal understanding, when his power is basically "I'm immune to locked doors" you know?

[Ascended]

For me, based on showing and Ascended Tier system...

I'd tweak a few things myself but by and large I agree.

[LordAllMIghty]

I'd tweak a few things myself but by and large I agree.

My biggest problems where placing Mister Miracle and Harley Quinn, who I didn't know was enhanced by Poison Ivy.

[Ascended]

My biggest problems where placing Mister Miracle and Harley Quinn, who I didn't know was enhanced by Poison Ivy.

I don't think Harley's enhancements amount to much. Far as I know (I could be wrong) it's just a slight physical augmentation that doesn't really bring her noticeably above human capacity, and some toxin resistance that's admittedly pretty legit.

I mean, it's your list, it's a good list, and there isn't much difference in where you put Harls. But I figure, Dinah can bring down a building with her scream pretty reliably, Plas can too, they're all at that level of powerful. I'm not sure Harley could, on average. She's done it, but that's been "extra effort" style exceptions to the norm, I think.

But that's just me, I ain't trying to step on your toes.

[LordAllMIghty]

I don't think Harley's enhancements amount to much. Far as I know (I could be wrong) it's just a slight physical augmentation that doesn't really bring her noticeably above human capacity, and some toxin resistance that's admittedly pretty legit.

I mean, it's your list, it's a good list, and there isn't much difference in where you put Harls. But I figure, Dinah can bring down a building with her scream pretty reliably, Plas can too, they're all at that level of powerful. I'm not sure Harley could, on average. She's done it, but that's been "extra effort" style exceptions to the norm, I think.

But that's just me, I ain't trying to step on your toes.

I actually thought about putting Dinah higher but she more a hand-to-hand fighter to me. Don't get me wrong, her Canary Scream ain't **** to be played with and she can probably take out most of the Med Tier with it. As far as Plas...I just don't know where to place him. He always been a funny but indestructible annoyances to me.

[Ascended]

I actually thought about putting Dinah higher but she more a hand-to-hand fighter to me. Don't get me wrong, her Canary Scream ain't **** to be played with and she can probably take out most of the Med Tier with it. As far as Plas...I just don't know where to place him. He always been a funny but indestructible annoyances to me.

He's got one of those weird powersets that's hard to measure against other characters, definitely.

Let's see. He's vulnerable to temperature extremes, intense heat making him melt and cold making him brittle. So someone like Mr. Freeze or Heatwave, very street level villains, can pose a legit challenge. But he's essentially immune to blunt force, meaning even Superman is just wasting his strength, and sharp edges like Wonder Woman's sword might cut, if it's really damn sharp, but Plas can just pull himself back together with minimal effort. Plas could wreck an entire building on a reliable basis I think, but I don't think he could threaten a whole city without some plot induced aid. And his shape shifting is virtually unparalleled by anyone except maybe J'onn. Any prison trying to hold Plas must be air tight or he'll escape.

I think by the way I rank things, Plastic Man would be mid-tier. Whether he'd be low rank or mid rank by your system, I think he might be able to go either way but it's your system and not up to me anyway.

[DrNewGod]

I wanna say he is around Spider-man level...when not enhanced by his New God powers.



For me, based on showing and Ascended Tier system...
20200407_171056.jpg

Let the quibbling begin...

[LordAllMIghty]

He's got one of those weird powersets that's hard to measure against other characters, definitely.

Let's see. He's vulnerable to temperature extremes, intense heat making him melt and cold making him brittle. So someone like Mr. Freeze or Heatwave, very street level villains, can pose a legit challenge. But he's essentially immune to blunt force, meaning even Superman is just wasting his strength, and sharp edges like Wonder Woman's sword might cut, if it's really damn sharp, but Plas can just pull himself back together with minimal effort. Plas could wreck an entire building on a reliable basis I think, but I don't think he could threaten a whole city without some plot induced aid. And his shape shifting is virtually unparalleled by anyone except maybe J'onn. Any prison trying to hold Plas must be air tight or he'll escape.

I think by the way I rank things, Plastic Man would be mid-tier. Whether he'd be low rank or mid rank by your system, I think he might be able to go either way but it's your system and not up to me anyway.

No Sir. You are not putting all this on me...lol.

I just pulled from the amazing ground work you created. I just added God Level and Street to give some breathing room.

Low-tier power levels can be physically challenged by powerless, baseline human enemies. If a dude with a crowbar has a semi-reasonable chance to KO you, you're probably low-tier. Low-tier characters are, typically, going to be dealing with "real world" crime; drugs, human trafficking, smuggling, organized crime, etc. They may act locally, or globally, but will rarely find themselves in fantastical locales such as space or other dimensions. The scope of their actions rarely has direct implications for more than a city, or a very specific global network. A low-tier character can have powers, but rarely has more than one, or a very closely related set. Power limits are like "can reliably pick up a armored truck with some effort" and "reliably, consistently blow up a concrete wall" or "short out every circuit in this modestly sized building."

Mid-tier power levels are much more clearly beyond the scope of humanity or real world technology. A baseline human can still be a threat, but it will require the human have something extra in his advantage; numbers, high-tech gear, world class training, etc. A dude with a crowbar can still get a lucky hit in, but when a mid-tier character fights baseline humans, he's noticeably punching below his weight class. The scope of their actions can have direct implications on anything from a city to the globe, but will rarely extend beyond that. Threats will include "real world" problems but will also include fantastical threats like alien invasions or giant monsters, and common locations may include different planets, dimensions, timelines, etc. A mid-tier character either has powers or equipment that eclipses real world technology/knowledge. They can not only pick up the armored truck, but might throw it through a building a block away. They won't just knock down a wall, they'll knock down the whole building. They won't just short out every circuit in the building, but the entire city.

High-tier characters aren't challenged by baseline humans, excepting plot-induced reasoning. A baseline human with the best technology/knowledge on earth is damn unlikely to hurt the high-tier character. The scope of the high-tier character starts at a global level and often has direct implications for the solar system, if not the galaxy, universe, or more. If they deal with "real world" problems it carries global implications, and they operate in fantastical locales as often or more often than they do a standard, grounded setting. They can throw that armored truck into the sun or into the future, destroy a continent, and short out every circuit on the planet.

Let the quibbling begin...

Let's do it...lol

[Tzigone]

Let the quibbling begin...

Well, since you asked...what are Donna's power levels now, anyway? I know that she doesn't get the same kind of threats as WW, but last time I bothered to read her (and it's been a long while, given what's happened to the character), she was essentially identical to Diana in her own powers (didn't have the lasso). Then again, I know Diana got some new powers, but don't know which of them are still in play, since her history is in a little flux right now.

[king81992]

Well, since you asked...what are Donna's power levels now, anyway? I know that she doesn't get the same kind of threats as WW, but last time I bothered to read her (and it's been a long while, given what's happened to the character), she was essentially identical to Diana in her own powers (didn't have the lasso). Then again, I know Diana got some new powers, but don't know which of them are still in play, since her history is in a little flux right now.

Donna should be mid tier, but she and the rest of the Titans cast have been degraded to jobbers, canon fodder or simply out of focus.

[LordAllMIghty]

Well, since you asked...what are Donna's power levels now, anyway? I know that she doesn't get the same kind of threats as WW, but last time I bothered to read her (and it's been a long while, given what's happened to the character), she was essentially identical to Diana in her own powers (didn't have the lasso). Then again, I know Diana got some new powers, but don't know which of them are still in play, since her history is in a little flux right now.

That's a good question. As far as I know Donna has always been weaker then Diana. She in the lower Class 100 ranking and I always assume she is around Thing's strength level.

I know her New52/Rebirth version is more powerful and able to fight Diana almost evenly but there still no clear indication of power...as Diana holds back a lot.

[Ascended]

No Sir. You are not putting all this on me...lol.

Ha! Okay, then my official ruling is that Plastic Man counts as mid-tier.

Okay, so we're all gonna quibble huh? Then let me ask; does Wally West still have some approximation of the Waid-Morrison-Millar stuff in his continuity? I'll submit an argument that if we're gonna have god tier levels, Wally should be considered for that. Dude plays in a big sandbox, even now with Barry back; escaping the speed force, Flash War, he's sitting in the Mobius Chair now. Should be worth a least a look.

[mathew101281]

I wanna say he is around Spider-man level...when not enhanced by his New God powers.



For me, based on showing and Ascended Tier system...
20200407_171056.jpg

I'd put the Atom in mid tier rather then low tier also I thing Aquaman and Mera are high tier. they are both superhumanly strong and hydro kinesis is one of the most powerful elemental powers their is.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Here's the thing, though: what makes a character "middle-tier"? A lot of the characters I think people might look at as "middle-tier" can sometimes be written as being incredibly powerful or at least capable of things that would make them hard for any "top-tier" character to take on.

Wolverine, for example, has a healing factor so advanced that he is capable of completely regenerating from a single drop of blood, making him basically immortal.

Iceman, who not many people think of when they think "most powerful Marvel characters", once literally froze Hell over and is actually classified as an omega-level mutant (aka the highest classification of mutants in terms of power-ranking).

Human Torch, another character I don't think people think of when they think of Marvel's most powerful characters, is able to reach 1,000,000 degrees Fahrenheit and has claimed that he's able to destroy a small moon with his most powerful attack.

So, while these guys can't literally toe the Earth with their superhuman strength like Superman or Wonder Woman nor could they lift mountains like the Hulk, they are powerful in other ways.