Should jon kent's shonen manga aesthetic and storybeats be discarded?

[Powertool]

This. Very much this.


I know there are distictions. I ignored that part in the first reply because you are basically right. I know there is shoujo, seinen.. Etc. That are targeted at different demo's. I know the difference between one piece and berserk. that doesn’t mean these characters aren't what you call the patterns of protagonist of modern shonens and there aren't troupes that repeat in shonen manga.

If jon hadn't awakened his powers he would just be regular kid. He wasn't a royalty.He earned the cape by learning to levitate for seconds after falling on his face for days, just like naruto earned the head band. He earned the s by protecting lois from the intergang and clark from black mercy. Keep in mind jon isn't powerful as clark, has unstable abilites, isn't fully grown devloped kryptonIan. A bullet and fire can hurt him, if fluctuations happen. Royalty are born with power. They are only trained to get good at their jobs. They aren't trained because they are potential nuclear bombs. Jon was. Jon was trained because he was about to be taken by the jl if superman wasn't going to start training him. And for every mother her son is superboy.

Infact he was like naruto, ostracised by the superhero community for having unstable powers and being a potential threat. He was always thought of as a bomb that can walk. The reason for Clark's overprotectivness and crazy paranoid dad routine. Even, the jl thought that about him as such. Damian also kidnaps jon because he is threat. Also the titans tries to kill him. He had finally found a place after years of living in hiding basically and it gets taken from him. Also jon not learn darkside of superheroics, he forms his own ninja way as in superheroing method. I had forgotten to put these in as in as points.I admit naruto's ostricised orphan story is very sad. But, it was hammered down than more than it actually is. Naruto always had friends and he always had konohamaru, iruka and third hokage. He always had choiji, kiba and shikamaru. With iruka joining late.

Jon wants to be superman,someday.like naruto wanted to be the hokage. Its not because its his birthright. But because its a simple rivalry with his father. Deepdown, he wants to make him proud. Deku want all might to be proud. Jon has hidden potential like gohan and had shown explosive powers on multiple occasions. One of the reasons he starts training.there is an uncousious element to naruto inheriting the will of fire and him wanting to be the hokage. When fourth says he was naruto's father. There is anger in naruto for sealing ninetails. But, deep down naruto knew on some level.

Mix naruto and gohan, put wrinkle some deku or hinata like design. Bam, you got jon kent.Unlike clark, jon's powers were unstable and very much like naruto's nine tales. He killed his cat. He blew up the titans tower. He almost killed superman, titans and banged up fortress of solitude.There is potential effort by the creators to put in these troupes and patterns into jon. Not to mention, the fact that jon' story is littered with eater eggs and references from mangas like naruto, dragon ball, one piece.. Etc.Combined with the fact that jon isn't the titke character unlike naruto or any anime protagonists,so his developments aren't linear like or That focused on, shows jon's fanbase seems to be made of people who arent into battle shonen's.

Sorry, I don't see any of this in the character of Jon Kent. In general, I see very little of anything in Jon Kent. After all, I fear that the general reaction in this forum to Jon Kent being introduced as a kid with the character traits of a genuine Battle Shonen MC would have been: "Who is this little punk? Why didn't his parents instill him some respect with some healthy application of the belt? Why are Clark and Lois always disrespected this wayyyyy?!?!?!?!"

And once again, by pulling out once again the "ostracization card" when you refer to the consequences of Jon not being able to control his powers you show that you are either seeing things that are not there or you just don't know what ostracizing means. I cannot reply to clearly faulty arguments.

[manwhohaseverything]

Sorry, I don't see any of this in the character of Jon Kent. In general, I see very little of anything in Jon Kent. After all, I fear that the general reaction in this forum to Jon Kent being introduced as a kid with the character traits of a genuine Battle Shonen MC would have been: "Who is this little punk? Why didn't his parents instill him some respect with some healthy application of the belt? Why are Clark and Lois always disrespected this wayyyyy?!?!?!?!"

And once again, by pulling out once again the "ostracization card" when you refer to the consequences of Jon not being able to control his powers you show that you are either seeing things that are not there or you just don't know what ostracizing means. I cannot reply to clearly faulty arguments.

Well, it's actually the reverse. it's the so called "parents" that need to respect the kid. He has been kidnapped multiple times, tortured multiple times and of no fault of his own with a set of parents that would rather bang than find him. Not to worry he kicked Manchester black's ass with kathy. He escaped ultraman and woman on his own without the sun(take that shitty plot device) . In fact, at the moment the kid respect the jackasses too much and too unrealistically in my opinion. It's pathetic and harley quinn level nonsense to see him go back to his parents even after the abusive levels of neglect and disinterest . He has no boruto in him. I would rather clark be treated like the shitty father he is. Jon should paint on superman statue in Metropolis with "shitty old man!!!".


Was jon attacked by titans or not? He was. Was the intent to kill or not? It was. Were jl and batman especially paranoid by jon or not? They were. Was jon excluded by the titans multiple times and superhero community in general for various reasons whatever they maybe, such as age, inexperience, incompetence, unstable dangerous powers or not? He was. Was jon's powers unstable and capable of killing himself and metropolis or not (like naruto had the potential to destroy leaf) ?it was .Ostricise means to exclude from a society or group.here, it superhero community and in naruto it was the leaf village. The pages i posted as op itself has superman going bonkers with batman. Tomasi himself has said that batman was paranoid regarding jon's potential.Furthermore, Naruto's once he got his powers under control became this. It seized to be a bane. Naruto started using kyubbi chakra "ok, you stupid fox. Lend me your chakra" . Bendis hasn't tied that plot thread backup. I have no idea if he will. Regarding jon. But, he did mention damian going rogue again. If i made an anime, i can put in heart wrenching flashbacks with the kid sitting on his favourite tree in Hamilton county, with sadness and sorrow background.

You said there is no connection between jon and shonen. Well, it is false. Because i atleast can provide eastereggs and references. You might disagree or not see them. You might not see these but it very much in the booksThat perfectly fine. It's art and its subjective. All i am going by is the jorge jimenez's love for jon and anime's in generation. Guys like gleason and tomasi's willingness to go battle shonen route. Heck! That death of superman movie fight was pretty battle oriented and was under the pen of tomasi.

[SpideyCeo]

Ewe, Naruto and Natsu talk in my thread. As far as im concerned, jon has no connections to any japanese colorbook manchild loser because they dont exist in life anymore, and are all non existant. Boruto was killed by sasuke, deku was slaughtered by enji and todoroki while being mind controled by stain, luffy and the crew were all slaughtered by the navy, all shonen hero types died after togashis own breakout hero gon.

Naruto especially and any spins off pertaining to hin dont exist.

[Jackalope89]

Ewe, Naruto and Natsu talk in my thread. As far as im concerned, jon has no connections to any japanese colorbook manchild loser because they dont exist in life anymore, and are all non existant. Boruto was killed by sasuke, deku was slaughtered by enji and todoroki while being mind controled by stain, luffy and the crew were all slaughtered by the navy, all shonen hero types died after togashis own breakout hero gon.

Naruto especially and any spins off pertaining to hin dont exist.

Too bad for you, death is meaningless in Dragon Ball (even moreso than in Western Comics), and Goku is still going strong!

[Powertool]

Well, it's actually the reverse. it's the so called "parents" that need to respect the kid. He has been kidnapped multiple times, tortured multiple times and of no fault of his own with a set of parents that would rather bang than find him. Not to worry he kicked Manchester black's ass with kathy. He escaped ultraman and woman on his own without the sun(take that shitty plot device) . In fact, at the moment the kid respect the jackasses too much and too unrealistically in my opinion. It's pathetic and harley quinn level nonsense to see him go back to his parents even after the abusive levels of neglect and disinterest . He has no boruto in him. I would rather clark be treated like the shitty father he is. Jon should paint on superman statue in Metropolis with "shitty old man!!!".

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, but if you ever get in trouble with the law, listen to your attorney and let him talk while in court.

Was jon attacked by titans or not? He was. Was the intent to kill or not? It was. Were jl and batman especially paranoid by jon or not? They were. Was jon excluded by the titans multiple times and superhero community in general for various reasons whatever they maybe, such as age, inexperience, incompetence, unstable dangerous powers or not? He was. Was jon's powers unstable and capable of killing himself and metropolis or not (like naruto had the potential to destroy leaf) ?it was .Ostricise means to exclude from a society or group.here, it superhero community and in naruto it was the leaf village. The pages i posted as op itself has superman going bonkers with batman. Tomasi himself has said that batman was paranoid regarding jon's potential.Furthermore, Naruto's once he got his powers under control became this. It seized to be a bane. Naruto started using kyubbi chakra "ok, you stupid fox. Lend me your chakra" . Bendis hasn't tied that plot thread backup. I have no idea if he will. Regarding jon. But, he did mention damian going rogue again. If i made an anime, i can put in heart wrenching flashbacks with the kid sitting on his favourite tree in Hamilton county, with sadness and sorrow background.

You said there is no connection between jon and shonen. Well, it is false. Because i atleast can provide eastereggs and references. You might disagree or not see them. You might not see these but it very much in the booksThat perfectly fine. It's art and its subjective. All i am going by is the jorge jimenez's love for jon and anime's in generation. Guys like gleason and tomasi's willingness to go battle shonen route. Heck! That death of superman movie fight was pretty battle oriented and was under the pen of tomasi.

Reading your collection of story beats which in your opinion prove how much Naruto and Jon Kent are alike, one would infer that freaking Spider-Man was the first Battle Shonen MC in history, judging by what happens in the first issue of Amazing. What you describe is NOT ostracization, just the unwritten (and much parodied) rules of superhero comics. Heroes attacking each other during their first encounter is a universally-recognized set greeting across publishing houses.

But you know the most important reason why seeing Battle Shonen tropes in Jon Kent's character (or in most character from American comics, for that matter) an exercise in futility?

Because there's no storyline to speak of at all in Jon Kent's progression! To put it simply, without a single creative mind behind it all, like in most manga, and without strong editorial guidance (which is a chimera in the current environment of the comic book industry) Jon was born as just a prop to reinforce the fact that Clark and Lois were back to being a couple and there's never supposed to be a final purpose for his character. He will always just be used by one writer after another for whatever goal they have in mind at the moment. Today his story is the protagonist of his own "Super-boy meets world" second-rate adventures, tomorrow he's busy with being Morty traveling across the depth of space and time with grandpa Jor-Ick, the day after tomorrow he's the most important superhero of all time and full of super-friends from the XXXII century and the day after that he'll find the new incarnation of the Outsiders and find out that his real mother is Maxima of Almerac. Mangakas might be infamous for being notoriously bad at sticking the landing, but at least you don't have Monkey D. Luffy realize 40 chapters into his adventure forgetting that he had set out to become Pirate King and now wishing to be an astronaut.

And by the way, it's clear to me that authors like Jorge Jiménez or Peter Tomasi might LIKE Shonen manga but they definitely don't GET Shonen manga. And that's because, at the end of the day, they are American writers writing for an ever-shrinking American public, both being sets of people who have mostly forgotten what a comic book intended for mass consumption is. I've already burnt my fingers once with Adam Warren-- I really believed that his Empowered series would have been the synthesis of American superhero comics and Japanese manga, but then he just had to shove a multiple-page rant against white-knighting starting from the most obvious strawman I had ever seen and I realized that I was wrong-- I'm not going to praise the half-baked efforts of those guys.

[manwhohaseverything]

Reading your collection of story beats which in your opinion prove how much Naruto and Jon Kent are alike, one would infer that freaking Spider-Man was the first Battle Shonen MC in history, judging by what happens in the first issue of Amazing. What you describe is NOT ostracization, just the unwritten (and much parodied) rules of superhero comics. Heroes attacking each other during their first encounter is a universally-recognized set greeting across publishing houses.

But you know the most important reason why seeing Battle Shonen tropes in Jon Kent's character (or in most character from American comics, for that matter) an exercise in futility?

Because there's no storyline to speak of at all in Jon Kent's progression! To put it simply, without a single creative mind behind it all, like in most manga, and without strong editorial guidance (which is a chimera in the current environment of the comic book industry) Jon was born as just a prop to reinforce the fact that Clark and Lois were back to being a couple and there's never supposed to be a final purpose for his character. He will always just be used by one writer after another for whatever goal they have in mind at the moment. Today his story is the protagonist of his own "Super-boy meets world" second-rate adventures, tomorrow he's busy with being Morty traveling across the depth of space and time with grandpa Jor-Ick, the day after tomorrow he's the most important superhero of all time and full of super-friends from the XXXII century and the day after that he'll find the new incarnation of the Outsiders and find out that his real mother is Maxima of Almerac. Mangakas might be infamous for being notoriously bad at sticking the landing, but at least you don't have Monkey D. Luffy realize 40 chapters into his adventure forgetting that he had set out to become Pirate King and now wishing to be an astronaut.

And by the way, it's clear to me that authors like Jorge Jiménez or Peter Tomasi might LIKE Shonen manga but they definitely don't GET Shonen manga. And that's because, at the end of the day, they are American writers writing for an ever-shrinking American public, both being sets of people who have mostly forgotten what a comic book intended for mass consumption is. I've already burnt my fingers once with Adam Warren-- I really believed that his Empowered series would have been the synthesis of American superhero comics and Japanese manga, but then he just had to shove a multiple-page rant against white-knighting starting from the most obvious strawman I had ever seen and I realized that I was wrong-- I'm not going to praise the half-baked efforts of those guys.

Heroes attacking each other might be a rule for marvel. But, largely dc doesn't do that and not like this, anyways. Conner nor chris nor kara were attacked with intent to kill by their peers even though had exhibited far more power at consistent basis than jon does. Batman and wonderwoman simply took kara to amazon island for training. (which pissed clark off, but gave in). They didn't just attack him. They spied on him, approached him with causing and they set him aside many a times. So, much so that kid used superspeed to save their asses, they thought kid flash had saved them. This was also plot thread were jon, cyborg and damian saves the league from amazo thing. As for spiderman, yes spidey has the makings of shonen character. You know who used to fit a shonen hero to t better than spidey. Superman, not the current version. The original siegel shuster pulp fiction action hero,strongman from space.But,with superman what all things he has inspired. I mean he did inspire astroboy, to some extent goku... Etc. Goku is also touted as modern base for shonen protagonist . We could never truly measure the level impacts these characters had. But, at the end of they are unintended. Here, from the creative bringing things up themselves means they are intended.

While, you might be right regarding not having single creative team. If a theme is set, gets popular for the character and gets popularised it might get passed on even through different creatives for instance Clark's strongman aesthetic and even ethics or conners 90's look, essence... Etc. As for progression, spiderman isn't in high school now.Superman was lonely guy who wished for a family, now he is a family man. Wally west is the flash.Dick grayson became nightwing. It might take time but, there is progress in comics. Titans in dc was always about progress.While,silverage jl was about ideals that never change. Jon is a titan at heart. Sure, he was rejected by them. But, that doesn’t mean a thing. Jon exists to give superman the essence of progress.