which Batfamily character(s) you don't like

[Blue22]

For anyone who's read Outsiders, how is he in that? My main issue with Duke has always been how totally uninteresting he is and how just seems like a Batfamily member, with no real purpose, who was added just for the hell of it. It's a less intense version of my feelings on Wallace. And it's kinda why I feel bad for having voted for him now that I think about it. Because while I vehemently dislike Wallace, I don't actually dislike Duke (or any of the Batfam, for that matter). He's just the one that I care the least about. The one that'd I'd be the least upset over losing if there was another Flashpoint-style reboot and suddenly he was gone.

The Batman and Signal series didn't change my stance on him. So would Outsiders give me a reason to care?

[Westbats]

I imagine that if Harper was on the poll, she’d eclipse him even moreso.

If that's the case, then a lot of people will be upset by Tynion saying he's got plans for her later on in his Batman run.
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Personally? I don't really have an issue with anybody. I think every character has story-telling potential, it's the writer's duty to draw it out.

[Godlike13]

Harper could take over for Alfred.

[Frontier]

For anyone who's read Outsiders, how is he in that? My main issue with Duke has always been how totally uninteresting he is and how just seems like a Batfamily, member with no real purpose, who was added just for the hell of it. It's a less intense version of my feelings on Wallace. And it's kinda why I feel bad for having voted for him now that I think about it. Because while I vehemently dislike Wallace, I don't actually dislike Duke (or any of the Batfam, for that matter). He's just the one that I care the least about. The one that'd I'd be the least upset over losing if there was another Flashpoint-style reboot and suddenly he was gone.

The Batman and Signal series didn't change my stance on him. So would Outsiders give me a reason to care?

If you don't already like Duke I don't think Outsiders will change your stance much. You might ask yourself "When did he and Cass get close?"

Harper could take over for Alfred.

I don't hate Harper and even I think that would be a bad idea.

[Westbats]

Harper could take over for Alfred.

I was hoping for Julia to be brought back from Batwoman to fulfill the role, but all that does is remind me that she doesn't know about her father dying. Or at the very least, the audience doesn't know she has that information already.

[Tzigone]

I don't think anyone needs to fulfill the role, myself. In terms of Batman-support-work, it seems kinda make-work for me, since Bruce did fine without Alfred acting in that role for a long time. In terms of emotional role - I already felt Alfred was subsumed by role (sadly), and wouldn't wish that fate on anyone else. Though really, with the "I raised him element" it wouldn't play out the same, but I can't help but think it'd just be another person for Bruce to treat poorly. I especially don't like Julia doing it, though, because it would feel too much like one family meant to serve another forever. Kinda depressing. I mean, we did it with Alfred's father, originally, of course. But another generation, and today? Can't help but feel like it's sort "some families are meant to serve, others to be served" - gives me too much of a sort of aristocracy vibe. Can't say I've ever been a fan of the idea of Julia I admit. Nothing personal - read almost nothing of her. I just dislike the idea of Alfred having a grown daughter pop up out of nowhere, having never been mentioned. And it's worse if he always knew about her, but was busy raising Bruce instead.

Also, I think anyone getting Alfred's role is just begging that character to be disliked/resented by the audience. Bu, maybe I'm wrong, and instead the character will get more attention and flourish with a chance to shine in the eyes of a larger audience and become more popular.

[Zaresh]

Harper was such a Mary Sue. It was a boring read. I hope that, if they use her again, they give her something that makes her less... incredible capable and useful and right and whatever. I don't hate her but I can't say I care for her enough to read something with her. Which is something I can't say for any other bat-related character.

Come on, writers! Make her more appealing to me.

[Stars & Stripes]

If you don't already like Duke I don't think Outsiders will change your stance much. You might ask yourself "When did he and Cass get close?"

I don't hate Harper and even I think that would be a bad idea.

IMO, she could be Bluebird again, but off doing her own thing as an Outsider or Young Justice member. Not necessarily tied to Batman directly.

[J. D. Guy]

I wouldn't say Duke is written bad so much as he's written irregularly. he isn't used often or consistently, so his character doesn't gain much traction, which makes it easier for fans who were already going to write him off to write him off or trash him. what're the top reasons give by people who hate him? it's usually one of two things: either they are mad that they feel he's stepping in on some other characters page real estate ("there are already too many bat-characters, they should use x person" "he's stealing x person's thing") or they just say he's just boring (which usually denotes they don't know much about the character). both could be fixed by regular use that would showcase his distinction from other characters.

the biggest problem for Duke is that, like Damian, he suffers from certain fans being resistant to what his existence might mean for the status quo of the batfamily, but unlike Damian he doesn't have the luxury of the years of constant central exposure to develop and grow on the fanbase; even tho he [Damian] still get hate, that hate continues to lesson every year. which sucks because the Duke is swimming in interesting concepts unique to him that are never explored, both grounded (like his social angle from We are Robin) and fantastical (like his metahuman abilities and lineage).

it doesn't help that his suit (while I dislike it less now) is still not great for his character. you can't really expect a character to catch if they are dripping head to toe in someone else's visage. especially so when the iconography of the suit doesn't match the character, their abilities, or inform their personal ideology.

Quoting this for the sake of emphasis. The only thing I (still) don't agree with is the third paragraph.

The bold, in particular, is really unfortunate. It is something to think how similar Duke and Damian really are as new additions to the Batman mythology who have the power and potential to really bring interesting concepts and world building to the table like few other can. And yet because Duke does not have the same un-apologetically consistent usage to his character and concepts since his respective debut that Damian has been granted since his own respective debut, Duke has been made to suffer the ignorance and intolerance of fans in a way that Damian has survived past. (Even with Damian's haters, his persistence in presence has paid off in Damian's fanbase. Duke has his fanbase as well, but it is niche and stagnant due to Duke not be allowed to flourish and exist as an unapologetic, undeniable fixture in the mythos.)

[The Whovian]

The only one I don't like is Duke

[Caivu]

Harper was such a Mary Sue.

How? The only thing she was good at initially was electrical systems, which she has an in-story justification for.

[lemonpeace]

For anyone who's read Outsiders, how is he in that? My main issue with Duke has always been how totally uninteresting he is and how just seems like a Batfamily member, with no real purpose, who was added just for the hell of it. It's a less intense version of my feelings on Wallace. And it's kinda why I feel bad for having voted for him now that I think about it. Because while I vehemently dislike Wallace, I don't actually dislike Duke (or any of the Batfam, for that matter). He's just the one that I care the least about. The one that'd I'd be the least upset over losing if there was another Flashpoint-style reboot and suddenly he was gone.

The Batman and Signal series didn't change my stance on him. So would Outsiders give me a reason to care?

Outsiders is tricky for anyone who is a fan of Duke or would want to get into him. on the one hand, Hill is at least trying to develop him and do new things, but on the other, as the series goes on it's pretty clear the he is obviously Hill's least personally invested in character and it kinda shows. from 'Tec to now Duke's biggest "moments" in Hill's run aren't very flattering, he changed Duke's abilities and it's kinda nebulous if it's a replacement or a addition (which is a problem for a character already struggling to find footing), and even though we're approx. 12 issues in Duke has yet to catch a single W while catching multiple L's. I would say the best thing to come out of it so far for Duke's development has been his relationship with Cass. Other than that, if anyone went in feeling that Duke wasn't an important or essential character, this book is not going to be the one to change your mind; despite me desperation hoping it would've been.

other than that Outsiders is a solid team book despite some pacing issues, definitely more Black Lightning and Katana's book than Batman and the art is really good.

Quoting this for the sake of emphasis. The only thing I (still) don't agree with is the third paragraph.

The bold, in particular, is really unfortunate. It is something to think how similar Duke and Damian really are as new additions to the Batman mythology who have the power and potential to really bring interesting concepts and world building to the table like few other can. And yet because Duke does not have the same un-apologetically consistent usage to his character and concepts since his respective debut that Damian has been granted since his own respective debut, Duke has been made to suffer the ignorance and intolerance of fans in a way that Damian has survived past. (Even with Damian's haters, his persistence in presence has paid off in Damian's fanbase. Duke has his fanbase as well, but it is niche and stagnant due to Duke not be allowed to flourish and exist as an unapologetic, undeniable fixture in the mythos.)

we'll be doing this dance forever J.D.

[Zaresh]

How? The only thing she was good at initially was electrical systems, which she has an in-story justification for.

Initially is the key word. She got better and more key to every plot the more it all progressed. Going toe to toe with the other more experienced characters the more things kept happening. She was this cool character that I just couldn't see why was so cool, no matter what the writer kept telling me she was by the veterans characters (edit: I'm aware this sounds somewhat petty, but I don't mean to sound so). She kept filling the place some other character would have fit more naturally in the story, with her having zero previous story to substantiate any connection and involvement I could feel for her (edit: this is what I actually mean). It's like she kept occupying a lightspot too big in the stage of the play. Without a good enough reason why (for me).
I generally have a big problem with stuff like that. I can understand doing that in the "old days". But nowadays, eh... Show me why, and how, and why should be her and not any other character I'm certainly more familiar with and involved with, doing stuff in the pages I'm reading. She felt too much like a Poochie for me.

I think I got more attached to her brother, to be honest.

This is just my personal opinion, though. Which is, well, an opinion. I generally don't like Snyder's writing (or Tynion's), and that sure helped in boring me. She had a cool design, that's something on my plus list. And she also reminded me a lot of Max from BB, which could be a good thing; but for some reason she didn't get to profit of that bonus. Something was done in a manner that burned me soon.

Edit: also, about her Mary Sue-ness. it's not just* that she was a genius who just fit perfectly in the batclan and everyone kept supporting her almost instantly. It's that I can't recall any mess she would've done that brought any conflict that meant any consequence for her status or circumstances. She was just generally right in her choices and opinions; of too impulsive or too confident, but then it all ends fine and... nothing else. It's been a while since I've read BE / BaRE, but this is the sensations that I still remember from when I read them (I may be remembering wrong, basically).
Edit much later: I've no problems with new characters usually, and welcome them if I feel them interesting enough. I liked Shawn in Nightwing, for example.

[king81992]

Bruce when he's written as a 'broken ineffective hero who can't save anyone and makes everything worse', which is most of the time these days. It's hard to see him as a hero or even a good person and writers still try to pretend that broken Batman is in the right/ doing things for the good of everyone.

Damian is unlikable in general, the only time he was likable was when writers paired him with Dick or Jon. He's basically a team obliterator at this point.

Looking at the poll results, I'm surprised that Duke is so disliked.He's one of the more likable Bat fan members currently.

[Frontier]

IMO, she could be Bluebird again, but off doing her own thing as an Outsider or Young Justice member. Not necessarily tied to Batman directly.

Ironically the Young Justice cartoon introduces her with no connection to Gotham or the Batfamily.

Bruce when he's written as a 'broken ineffective hero who can't save anyone and makes everything worse', which is most of the time these days. It's hard to see him as a hero or even a good person and writers still try to pretend that broken Batman is in the right/ doing things for the good of everyone.

I think this has been more of a problem with King/the main book.

Damian is unlikable in general, the only time he was likable was when writers paired him with Dick or Jon. He's basically a team obliterator at this point.

Damian can be a hard sell.

Looking at the poll results, I'm surprised that Duke is so disliked.He's one of the more likable Bat fan members currently.

Duke feels fairly irrelevant these days that I'm not sure why anyone would have a problem with him unless they're still holding a grudge for when Snyder seemed to be trying to make him the new Robin, or then turned Robin into a brand/movement, or said "Robin doesn't need Batman" while going through the standard Robin training and career path (even though he was supposed to be trained to be a solo hero?).