View Poll Results: which Batfamily member you don't like ?

Voters
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  • Batman (Bruce Wayne)

    18 11.25%
  • Nightwing (Dick Grayson)

    9 5.63%
  • Drake (Tim Drake)

    36 22.50%
  • Robin (Damian Wayne)

    49 30.63%
  • Batwoman (Kathy Kane)

    31 19.38%
  • Huntress (Helena Bertinelli)

    15 9.38%
  • Orphan (Cassandra Cain)

    19 11.88%
  • Batiglrl (Barbara Gordon)

    15 9.38%
  • Signal (Duke Thomas)

    70 43.75%
  • Red Hood (Jason Todd)

    37 23.13%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #61
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    People choosing Bruce Wayne/Batman....what do you even like about Batman then?
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 04-04-2020 at 08:05 PM.

  2. #62
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    People choosing Bruce Wayne/Batman....what do you even like about Batman than?
    I liked batman once upon a time. Current Batman? How can I like him? He's a piece of work who is told by no one. Not even his interaction with other characters is entertaining most of the time.

    I follow Batman overall, I like plenty of the characters tied of him. I'm a fan of a few. I like some of the elseworlds that they're publishing currently. I loved Batman in the 80's, I loved him in BTAS. I don't like him in the current run or hasn't liked him enough in them for... maybe the last 15 years. I'm neutral all the time to him, and always expect the worst to happen because it usually is what happens.

    One doesn't need to unconditionally love the titular character of a franchise to like the franchise itself.

    I didn't vote him for reasons I already told a few pages ago. But I was about to vote for him, and here is why.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 04-04-2020 at 08:21 PM.
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  3. #63
    Mighty Member Dr. Skeleton's Avatar
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    I've grown to dislike Tim and Huntress in recent years. Signal and Batwoman I really don't care for either.

  4. #64
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    People choosing Bruce Wayne/Batman....what do you even like about Batman then?
    I already wrote why earlier. BTAS, pre-Crisis, and Adam West Batman are fine. Current Batman in the main comics? He's a borderline (or well past borderline) sociopathic. Be it towards the Robins, his friends, or the various heroes like the Justice League. He's just an all around unlikeable person. The members of the Bat Family though? They can be serious without being utter assholes to everyone else. Not my fault writers/editors have made him such an awful person.

  5. #65
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    I already wrote why earlier. BTAS, pre-Crisis, and Adam West Batman are fine. Current Batman in the main comics? He's a borderline (or well past borderline) sociopathic. Be it towards the Robins, his friends, or the various heroes like the Justice League. He's just an all around unlikeable person. The members of the Bat Family though? They can be serious without being utter assholes to everyone else. Not my fault writers/editors have made him such an awful person.
    Batman is not a sociopath. That word has a specific meaning.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    People choosing Bruce Wayne/Batman....what do you even like about Batman then?
    I've always been pretty indifferent to Batman for the most part. Like I said before, the family is always what drew me into his stories. Not him. I'll be completely honest here, he's mostly just a prop to me.

    There are versions of him that I really like, specifically in the DCAU and the Nolanverse, but most of my experiences with him in the comics have been pretty "....meh". Just an uninteresting guy who just happens to have a cast of REALLY interesting characters.

    Except for the times where his dickish behavior is kicked into full throttle. Then I straight up can't stand him. And nowhere was that side of him highlighted, enabled, justified more than in King's run. That was so bad that it almost made me give up on BatCat. And I was a huge supporter of it, beforehand xD

  7. #67
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Batman is not a sociopath. That word has a specific meaning.
    He does what he wants no matter what others would think about it. He works outside society rules, even if he doesn't kill (arguable, with how he beats his rougues), he doesn't care what others think of his actions. He manipulates and lies to acchieve an aim, he distrusts his friends and allies, and doesn't doubt his own standards, choices and rules. He takes away other people's right to take their own decisions... EDIT: oh, right. He aslo puts others in danger without a second thought and apparelntly without remorse. Because, you know, he's right always, and his plans don't fail. And when he does, it's all about him, his drama. Sigh, I hate it.

    I don't know. He's not a psychopath, but a sociopath? Eh... He shows traits of it nowadays.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 04-04-2020 at 08:57 PM.
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  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I don't think this board is made up of average people, though.
    You're right. Then I guess the reason is because they're the least controversial. The most Dick did was taking some Robin attributes from other Robin such as Tim's modern costumes, bo, and Superboy, but those are in other media. The most Babs did was becoming Batgirl again. Personality-wise they're the "good kids". Some people can't take mouthy kids like Jason, Steph, and Damian, even if they don't kill people.

    There's the feud between Tim and Damian fans, the debate whether Jason and Kate should be in the family, whether Cass is too strong and if Duke is even necessary.

    Then there's Bruce whose writers sometimes can't seem to differentiate between being introvert and a jerk or too focused on one side than the other he comes off as a jerk

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    People choosing Bruce Wayne/Batman....what do you even like about Batman then?
    I like him in Golden, Silver, Bronze age, the movies, I have no problem there (well, except that one time he chose to date Talia who's around the same age as Dick. That's creepy)

    When they make him too obsessed on the mission that he forgets the people who support him, and they make him do this over and over, even if there's a pretty big interval, even if it's caused by grief, of course, he's not gonna be likable.

    It's interesting and understandable the first time, but if it keeps happening, it's a problem.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 04-05-2020 at 06:01 AM.

  9. #69
    Extraordinary Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Not really hate but I've never really cared for Tim Drake, maybe because out of all the Robins he's the least interesting to me as his own character.

    Do hate most modern depictions of Bruce as a prick who regularly treats his supposed friends/colleagues as dirt or regularly violates their trust/friendship.

  10. #70
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Where Bruce avoids the "dislike" option for me is that he has existed for 80 years, and not just in the main canon comics. And even with canon, we've seen how DC treats it as being ridiculously fluid and changes their mind about it seemingly every other week. They've had at least 5-6 different "main canons" now, and Bruce isn't a dick in a good portion of them (the earlier ones). And he's a bigger character than comics, and his other media portrayals reach a wider audience. The only one really approaching the jerkiness of the comics was Snyder's, which was part of the (misguided) point, and was overall rejected by the mainstream.

    So if Bruce sucks in the mainstream comics...doesn't mean he sucks, just means DC is putting out a crappy output for him and it's appealing to the lowest common denominator or people are buying and just putting up with it.

    But he's bigger than comics and any one version, so if he's boring or horrible in one thing, it's easy enough to find something else. Whereas some of his family to me is more consistent in their characterizations, especially as many of them came about when DC was getting more strict and Marvel-like in their continuity. Bruce is only boring sometimes...Tim on the other hand is usually always boring as a default setting

  11. #71
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    Damian is unbearable and I hate how DC made him more important because he has Bruce's blood like his adopted sons are less worthy, in general, like adoption makes the relationship between parent and adopted sons/daughter less valuable. Duke Thomas is boring, he appears and I lose interest immediately.

  12. #72
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Batman is not a sociopath. That word has a specific meaning.
    I think we could split hairs on the difference, honestly. Sometimes DC lets Bats get really out of control.

    But even if he's not a sociopath, he's still often written as one of the most Machiavellian d-bags in comics. He's manipulative, cold, abusive, his actions have directly hurt everyone around him and he usually refuses to accept fault or blame. He's the god damn Batman, so obviously everything he does must be correct and justifiable. And if you disagree then you lack the vision and the grit to see the mission through. It's your fault for being weak, not Batman's for going too far.

    I feel like if we made a list of crap Batman has done, you'd think it was the work of a villain instead of a hero. Hell, most heroes have taken down people for less than what Batman gets away with on a regular basis. And yeah, other heroes cross the line sometimes too. Superman trapped millions of people in the Phantom Zone (and took over the world once or twice) and he's killed some people (a surprising amount, across history and formats) but this stuff happens rarely with most heroes. With Bruce it's a pretty regular thing. It's not a one-off mistake, it's a habit of behavior.

    That's just modern comics though, in other eras and in other formats he's not nearly so bad. I blame Millar.
    Last edited by Ascended; 04-06-2020 at 08:39 AM.
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  13. #73
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I don't even think Miller's is that bad, at least in TDKR. He constantly threatens to fire Carrie if she screws up, but never really does, nor does he casually manipulate her to the same degree he's done to his allies in canon. And he's on the opposite end of the spectrum in Year One.

    I think it's more that creators and fans took the wrong lessons from TDKR (bad possible future, Bruce as a bitter old man compared to his younger self, both he and Supes have lost their ways in different directions) and just figured Batman should be like that all the time. Even Miller seems to have learned the wrong things, because hey All-Star.

    Canon Batman has stuff like NML, Murderer/Fugitive, OMAC and War Games under his belt. He's worse than Miller's.

  14. #74
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    There's a select number of modern stories where Batman goes a little overboard on things, but for the majority of 80 years he's always been a heroic force for good and a caring and compassionate individual. There are times when he lets the aesthetics of The Batman get rough and tough, but he would not be effectual if he just held hands with everybody.

    I guess this ties into why Jason Todd and Tim Drake annoy me, more what they represent and less what they are/were. Batman having a dead kid under his belt, and like 5 Robins really does break the character a bit. I think that's where a lot of what you guys are saying comes from, and I can see that.

    Dick Grayson grounds him in a way that is really needed. Batman needs a Robin always, but Robin should pretty much always be the same dude.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 04-06-2020 at 09:26 AM.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    There's a select number of modern stories where Batman goes a little overboard on things, but for the majority of 80 years he's always been a heroic force for good and a caring and compassionate individual. There are times when he lets the aesthetics of The Batman get rough and tough, but he would not be effectual if he just held hands with everybody.

    I guess this ties into why Jason Todd and Tim Drake annoy me, more what they represent and less what they are/were. Batman having a dead kid under his belt, and like 5 Robins really does break the character a bit. I think that's where a lot of what you guys are saying comes from, and I can see that.

    Dick Grayson grounds him in a way that is really needed. Batman needs a Robin always, but Robin should pretty much always be the same dude.
    Bruce's most dickish and unheroic actions aren't failing to save Jason* or having more Robins. It's being physically and emotionally abusive towards Dick (in fact he arguably gets treated the worse of Bruce's kids by Bruce himself), creating anti-JL weapons that he keeps to himself, every time he acts like he's the law in Gotham and his disastrous attempts to single-handedly police the entire superhero community. It has nothing to do with who the Robin is or how many of them he's had.

    * Though I think there tends to be some victim blaming from some fans when it comes to Jason's death.

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