Silver Surfer vs. Gladiator + Thor

[Captain Morgan]

And given Arby's interpretation, yeah, that's probably enough to get Surfer the win.

Though, to be fair, the board to the back of the head isn't going to work nearly as well against this comp as against Bill: the comp is significantly more durable and just as fast as Surfer or his board.

Sure, but he's still operating at a severe disadvantage, is my point. The board thing is just one example. The fusion is trying to have a knife fight while wearing a hazmat suit, essentially, and the Surfer doesn't have to worry about his getting torn.

[Nik Hasta]

You have the idea that durability means one thing. You are entitled to that idea. I don't agree with your interpretation in this case, but here, I'll use your own examples:

Like, the bolded part of this statement is particularly funny because I went out of my way to point out how Gladiator's radiation weakness, to quote myself here, "is distinct from his durability,"

And then you made an example, apparently using my logic, that was centred around durability.

Please read my posts when you respond to them, Big.

[Pendaran]

OK, maybe we can get the OP to step in here? I'm not remotely arguing whether or not Gladiator is hurt by this radiation. He is. It's a fact. It's known. It's canon. It's official.

But here, we're talking about how stacked composites (things that don't exist in comics) work specifically on this board, and more specifically still, in this thread. There are no rules or guidelines official for the board.

You claiming or deciding that my comparisons are non-applicable do not make them so.

There is no comic feat you can point to that clarifies this rule, because this is not a comic book thing we're talking about.

And again, human eyes are weak to flashes of bright light. So a stacked composite of 5 humans would be much more vulnerable. Hell, Superman isn't really generally vulnerable to bright light (given that the dude loves him some sunlight), so if you make, again, a composite of Batman and Superman, that composite is now vulnerable to flashes of bright light? Humans are vulnerable to that. It's a species-specific weakness. Humans are vulnerable to bones breaking at a certain pressure - so that vulnerability transfers to a comp of a human and a Daxamite, in your eyes.

Let's ask specific questions you can answer with yes or no answers:

1. Comp Batman and Superman: does the comp get sunburn? This is a species-specific weakness we're talking about.

2. Comp Spider Man and Hulk: does the comp get cut by knives? This is a specific weakness for Peter: he gets chucked through buildings without a scratch, but stabbed by a small knife, that's to much for him.

3. Comp Wonder Woman and Thanos: do bullets hurt the comp? Again, this is a specific weakness for Diana: she survives nukes, but a .38, oh hellz no.

So again, for me, a stacked comp means you get the good stuff from both halves of the comp but you don't stack the bad stuff. If not you get things like composite stack of the X Men being unable to go outside without roasting in the sun and being permanently blinded by the light.

This isn't a thing that comics can tell us about: Amazo absorbing abilities is not the same as the theoretical fusison potential of the CBR Rumbles forum, and thus, cannot lead us to a solution.

EDIT: I'm going to stand down until Arby decided to visit and tell us what the intends by the composite here.

I'll just say that, in my opinion, if he decides that the vulnerability stays, then sure, Surfer wins. If the vulnerability is protected, then no, the Thoriator wins.

There are only so many ways people can keep trying to tell you that you are conflating a massive intrinsic weakness with durability when you basically ignore them doing so.

You have the idea that durability means one thing. You are entitled to that idea. I don't agree with your interpretation in this case, but here, I'll use your own examples:

None of the things you keep trying to invoke involve people interacting with things that even slightly resemble Gladiator's interactions to the radiation frequency. At some point your refusal to acknowledge something as basic as "one of these things is not like the other" is basically on you.

Your argument at this point is straight up you saying that as long as words mean what you want them to, you can ignore when things have nothing to do with each other.

One more time:

Peter is not specifically weak to knives to the point that he has what boils down to a violent allergic reaction when cut by them.

Batman does not respond to a sunburn by collapsing to the ground, unmoving.

Wonder Woman, when approaching a crate of bullets, does not start to functionally break up her speech and stagger around.

Knives, uv light, and bullets are things these characters happen to lack a way to deal with.

Gladiator by contrast isn't being hurt by the radiation because he can't deal with radiation in any general sense, he's being excruciated, physically weakened, and in one case having his mind just briefly lose its capacity for reason because a specific frequency of radiation is his personal bane to such an insane extent that it does these things to him.

[Captain Morgan]

Edit: nevermind.

[Pendaran]

edit: Likewise.

[Shellhead]

My mind just rejects the whole stacked composite concept, especially stacked speed. Apparently if you stack-composite two normal guys, the result is somehow twice as fast. I suppose that makes just as much sense as them being twice as strong, but it just doesn't sound right to me. Is the composite's sense of smell twice as keen? Can the composite do mental calculations twice as fast? Do the social skills composite, too, resulting in doubly-effective pickup lines? Silly.

[Shellhead]

Are stacked composite guys twice as tall? Can they sing twice as well? Is their golf handicap added together or divided by two? Where does the madness stop?

[Pendaran]

Ehhhh, it's not that alien a concept. The idea of composite power being is the entire basis for Amazo and what all have you.

[Cronus]

Agree with Pen on this point. Thor is in fact resistant to the heat of stars. Gladiator likewise is seen enduring the intense blaze of a star without much problem, so from that standpoint, the stacked composite of the two can endure twice the heat, if I'm tracking? The specific issue is Gladiator is weak to a very specific wave of radiation that drops him to his knees a'la Clark Kent/Kryptonite style. That specific burst of radiation that Kallark is weak too therefore...doesn't disappear in a stacked composite with Thor. The composite is still weak to the specific wave of radiation that Surfer can cook up.

[big_adventure]

There are only so many ways people can keep trying to tell you that you are conflating a massive intrinsic weakness with durability when you basically ignore them doing so.



None of the things you keep trying to invoke involve people interacting with things that even slightly resemble Gladiator's interactions to the radiation frequency. At some point your refusal to acknowledge something as basic as "one of these things is not like the other" is basically on you.

Your argument at this point is straight up you saying that as long as words mean what you want them to, you can ignore when things have nothing to do with each other.

One more time:

Peter is not specifically weak to knives to the point that he has what boils down to a violent allergic reaction when cut by them.

Batman does not respond to a sunburn by collapsing to the ground, unmoving.

Wonder Woman, when approaching a crate of bullets, does not start to functionally break up her speech and stagger around.

Knives, uv light, and bullets are things these characters happen to lack a way to deal with.

Gladiator by contrast isn't being hurt by the radiation because he can't deal with radiation in any general sense, he's being excruciated, physically weakened, and in one case having his mind just briefly lose its capacity for reason because a specific frequency of radiation is his personal bane to such an insane extent that it does these things to him.

You seem to want to argue that degree is important when we're talking about specific vulnerabilities. Which is fine, as stated, you are entitled to have your opinion.

You argue that Wonder Woman's vulnerability to bullets wouldn't apply to a comp with Thanos because Thanos isn't weak to bullets.

So, is Thor weak to this kind of radiation? Is he weak to it at all? Because if he's not, it's literally the same thing. Sure, the degree is different, but that really doesn't matter if you want to say that WWnos is immune but Thoriator isn't.

And yes, give enough UV radiation, Batman drops nearly instantly. That same amount will not even be noticeable to Superman. This is because UV radiation does this to human bodies and not to kryptonians.

Likewise, the special magic Riptonite radiation has an exagerrated effect on Kallark. You say that it's a small amount - was the amount ever specified? Did it say that there were exactly 623 joules of enregy or something? Pretty sure not. Thor has no weakness to this, so wouldn't his resistance to this energy work like Superman's in the SuperBat composite against all the thousands of forms of energy which will drop Batman directly at relatively modest outputs but which wouldn't affect Superman at all?

You never answered my questions above, by the way. Still waiting there. Yes or no is all that you need to reply with. I wasn't asking for you to apply what degree you think is important, just asking simple yes or no questions.

[The Arbiter]

WW doesnt have a weakness to sharp objects. She just isn't as tough against them. Shes basically a normal human in durability against sharp stuff.

So if a knife hits Super Diana comp, it has to get through Superman's durability PLUS a normal humans durability. It's a facet of durability, not an inherent allergy. Its stacked up in that case. Not subtracted.

UV damage to humans is again a facet of our inherent durability against radiation. So its Superman's skin PLUS a human's durability against UV. Not some weird middle ground.

Durability gets stacked. Inherent and specific weaknesses still exist if that's what they are.

[big_adventure]

Like, the bolded part of this statement is particularly funny because I went out of my way to point out how Gladiator's radiation weakness, to quote myself here, "is distinct from his durability,"

And then you made an example, apparently using my logic, that was centred around durability.

Please read my posts when you respond to them, Big.

OK, Nik, the issue to me is that it ISN'T apart from his durability. It's a specific weakness that he has, a hole in his durability, exactly like Wonder Woman and bullets, or Spider Man and anything pointy or projected.

Superman is resistant to just about every form of energy and radiation, but he has a specific hole in his durability. Same here for Gladiator. But again, Thor does NOT have this hole. He gets "chills in stars" level of durability to ALL kinds of radiation. So he'd have it to this type that Glads is not durable to, so a stacked composite would have that as well.

Batman is specifically vulnerable to UV radiation as a human. It causes painful skin reactions with only very slight contact and overexposure leads to mutations that can become fatal diseases. Does this mean, I ask again, that a Superman/Batman combo gets skin cancer and sunburn? Because you are indeed arguing that a Strontian's racial weakness to a certain radiation overrides the other half of the stack's total immunity to same.

Put this another way:

If you projetected Riptonite radiation strongly enough, it would burn through non-Strontians as well, just like if you projected visible light on high enough levels, or radio waves. Obviously, for radio waves you've have to have a stupendous massive amout of power behind it - they are such long frequency that they generally pass through humans with basically no resistance, thus no heat. It just so happens that Strontians are weak to one specific frequency. It doesn't make real world physical sense, but it's a comic, it doesn't have to. But for Glads' weaknesshere, you still get Thor stacked into the composite. And he can take a truly titanic amount of energy without it really bothering him.

Let's use another example: in your view, would a pre-crisis Hal Jordan / Superman combo be vulnerable to the color yellow? Would Alan Scott combined with the Silver surfer be crippled by wood? Because that's exactly what you are arguing here. If you want to go that way, fine. It's not a winnable arguent either way: there is no evidence, there is no precedent. We aren't arguing comics feats here, we are arguing opinion. There isn't a board rule or a board standard that applies, and there are no feats at all that apply from actual comics that make this proveable one way or the other.

You and Pen are of the opinion that Glads' vulnerability supercedes any other invulnerability in the composite. You are only of that opinion here, though: you don't think so for Wonder Woman/Thanos or Spider Man/Hulk or Superman/Batman. You have decided that this thing isn't resistance or durability but something else. OK, that's just your opinion against mine, and I've actually tried to be really cool stating that you have the right to your opinion, you have both refused to offer me the same courtesy.

[big_adventure]

WW doesnt have a weakness to sharp objects. She just isn't as tough against them. Shes basically a normal human in durability against sharp stuff.

So if a knife hits Super Diana comp, it has to get through Superman's durability PLUS a normal humans durability. It's a facet of durability, not an inherent allergy. Its stacked up in that case. Not subtracted.

UV damage to humans is again a facet of our inherent durability against radiation. So its Superman's skin PLUS a human's durability against UV. Not some weird middle ground.

Durability gets stacked. Inherent and specific weaknesses still exist if that's what they are.

I explain my position on this in the post above.

In any case, Arby, this is your thread, and as I've pointed out repeatedly here, there are no board rules on this situation. If your opinion is that Thoriator has the same weakness as Gladiator to Riptonite, the Surfer wins easily, that decision decides it trivially.

[The Arbiter]

I explain my position on this in the post above.

In any case, Arby, this is your thread, and as I've pointed out repeatedly here, there are no board rules on this situation. If your opinion is that Thoriator has the same weakness as Gladiator to Riptonite, the Surfer wins easily, that decision decides it trivially.

My stance is a general guideline for my intent when I made the thread. I would hate to kill discussion by proclaiming a thing to be a thing.

My gut says either the Composite's weakness gets cut by half or he still has the entire weakness flat out. My gut is prone to flatulence however!

[Shai-Hulud]

Is Amazo with Superman's powers plus the rest of JLA vulnerable to kryptonite?

What about Duplicate Boy in regard to kryptonite and lead when he's using Clark and Mon-El's powers?

I have no strong opinion on the exact issue as yet, I'm just asking.