Is Frank Miller as Great a Writer as He is An Artist?

[BChristgau]

It depends. His DAREDEVIL runs have been legendary and groundbreaking storytelling in the medium, but then I find some of his work utterly baffling (i.e. ALL-STAR BATMAN).

[achilles]

In the 1980s, I would have said he's a good writer but not as good an artist. However, he tried to do the best he could with the artistic talent he had--and with Klaus Janson and Lynn Varley helping him out, he managed to improve. Looking back on his writing, I realize it was derivative of other better writers. But we learn by copying the people we admire--as a teacher once said in my younger days and I never forgot that.

In the 1990s, I would have said he's a better artist than a writer. I think having found his basic theme in his writing, he never improved on that. However, his art had improved greatly. Maybe because, again, he was copying better artists. But by copying them he learned a lot about anatomy, perspective and chiaroscuro.

Since then, he's just rested on his laurels. Having become "Frank Miller," he didn't have to do anything but put his name to the work. So he didn't even need to try. And I think trying is the thing that made Miller better. The art he did in 1990s had to take a lot of hours to produce and I can see why someone, getting older, just wouldn't want to put in those hours if they didn't have to.

Now I'm curious; what is Miller's basic theme?

[Joker]

his work on the sequel was just laziness on his part.

No, it wasn't. Different doesn't mean lazy, but thanks for playing.

[Riv86672]

His best work is undeniably behind him. He was a solid writer for a number of years then went to being kind of hit or miss. I don't even mind the change in his art style, although visually he's morphed into a kind of underground cartoonist which might not be suited for superheroes. Back in the day he was an important creator and definitely helped move the comics industry forward.

He had stories to tell (as both a writer and an artist) and he told them at the right time.
Comics wouldn’t be the same without him.
His later work hasn’t lived up to his best work.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

In my view, he's probably even better as a writer.

Daredevil: Born Again might just be his best work, and someone else illustrated it.

If he wasn't as good of a writer, he would still be a hell of an artist, but I wouldn't rate him higher than quite a few of his contemporaries: George Perez, John Byrne, Paul Smith, Bill Sienkiewicz, John Romita Jr.

However, there are very few writers who can match his best work, or the impact his work has had.

Agreed. In my opinion Born Again was his best Daredevil and Year One was his best Batman. Mazzucchelli was the artist for both (and imo enhanced his words).

He’s a great artist don’t get me wrong, but his ideas are better than his drawings

[DrNewGod]

I'm not a great fan, but I absolutely acknowledge the man is talented, and had a multiple, seminal influences on The Big Two.

Personally, I find his work darker (both story and images) than I typically like. I don't mind a bit of dark now and then, but all the time, and especially when seeming to work at it gets a bit tedious.

Even in the claims that his best work is behind him, I can find something to admire. It strikes me that, like Simonson, he's one of those who pushes himself to try something new, rather than just feed publishers rehashes of his greatest hits. It just so happens that what interests him to try next has not worked for a lot of us in the last several years.

[ed2962]

I actually like Frank's art up until very recently. However I see how say his art on something like Dark Knight Strikes Again, where he's going for more overt satire and morphing his style into a blend of Kirby and Crumb, would be off putting to some folks.

[worstblogever]

Love him as a writer, up until say about the year 2005 or so.

There are some fair criticisms of his work:

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I appreciated Miller's work as a writer (Daredevil: Born Again, The Dark Knight Returns) more than his artwork, but both those examples were over a quarter century ago when he was at the top of his game as a storyteller. Today, not so much, but that's just my opinion.

[Joker]

Love him as a writer, up until say about the year 2005 or so.

There are some fair criticisms of his work:

It’s a shitty criticism for several reasons in regard to “whores.”

Miller never really dismissed sex workers in his work as “whores”. They were generally strong independent women with a moral code who took after their own, and took no **** from the bad guys of the story.

Despite his turn toward more conservative views, Miller was actually very progressive and sex positive. Something his critics were not. That’s really not his fault. None of the protagonists ever looked down on these women for their profession.

If we wanted to be honest, Miller is not without fault, but writing sex workers as something other than trash was actually a pretty great thing.

[BeastieRunner]

Moore and Miller tend to write women rather poorly.

Is there a story where Frank didn't make the lead female a sex worker sans Elektra? And wrote them strong? I can think of 2, maybe 3 for Moore ...

That being said, his artwork is hit and miss for me. Same with his writing. They usually save one another when one is poor.

I would say his writing is his best creative facility, second to his ability to generate new ideas. His art is a bit of an acquired taste I think, a bit like Corben (whom I love and l have met a lot that don't).

But when he is on fire with both, he is one of the greats.

[Joker]

Martha Washington would be the main one. Wonder Woman. WW and Supes daughter. Lara? Carrie Kelly. Of course Elektra.

Catwoman is the only superhero character he did that to.

I’m reticent to even include Sin City. No one in those books is exactly on the right side of the law. It’s right there in the title.

[worstblogever]

It’s a shitty criticism for several reasons in regard to “whores.”

Miller never really dismissed sex workers in his work as “whores”. They were generally strong independent women with a moral code who took after their own, and took no **** from the bad guys of the story.

Despite his turn toward more conservative views, Miller was actually very progressive and sex positive. Something his critics were not. That’s really not his fault. None of the protagonists ever looked down on these women for their profession.

If we wanted to be honest, Miller is not without fault, but writing sex workers as something other than trash was actually a pretty great thing.

Guy works a lot of whores and strippers into stories where you're least expecting them. Hell, he retconned prostitution into Catwoman's origin.

[Joker]

Exclude Sin City, and let’s get into all the whores.

You can also just call them prostitutes, or sex workers. Whores is super derogatory.

And did he retcon prostitution into Catwoman? Was it ever stated she was an actual prostitute? It’s been a while...

[ed2962]

Exclude Sin City, and let’s get into all the whores.

You can also just call them prostitutes, or sex workers. Whores is super derogatory.

And did he retcon prostitution into Catwoman? Was it ever stated she was an actual prostitute? It’s been a while...

I think it's pretty fair to say that the implication in Batman: Year One was that Kyle and Holly were hookers. They couldn't state it out right because I'm pretty sure it was still a code approved comic.

The harder question to ask for some readers is, if Frank is obsessed with "whores"...so? His sex workers aren't meant to be seen as degraded people. He's even said that his prostitutes weren't meant to be a realistic portrayals of the sex trade. Selina and Holly are hookers who eventually turn against their pimp and regain their agency. Why would showing that be a bad thing? The prostitutes in Sin City make their own rules and police their neighborhood themselves. Gail is as bad-ass as any action heroine in comics.

Plus, I agree with with your other point...people who go on about Frank and his whores conveniently leave out Electra, Martha Washington and Casey from Ronin.