DC ending the animated movie universe?

[superduperman]

Can't speak for who you're asking (although from context I assume this), but this is definitely what I want to see. There wasn't a shared universe between Batman: Under the Red Hood or Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths. There was no shared continuity between Superman Batman: Public Enemies and JL: Doom. And while it wasn't perfect, it was largely better than the current shared universe films.

Most of the movies before this were based off of stand alone stories themselves. There really was no reason to reference any of the others. Does Superman exist in the Under the Red Hood universe? We don't know. There's no reference to him. I assume he does because of Amazo but there's nothing in the movie itself that states this. Now, Superman obviously needs to be part of Hush because that was in the comic. But it doesn't have to be a specific Superman. The Superman/Batman movies appeared to be part of the shared universe but it wasn't necessarily part of anything else. The movies based off of Miller's books don't necessarily need to be part of the same universe but they can be. And the other Justice League movies are up for debate. Doom. Crisis on Two Worlds, etc.

[Farealmer]

The movies have gone down the hill. Red Son was awful. Wonder Woman is now a stereotypical lesbian hating male basher. Good to end it now before DC lets it completely fall off the cliff.

That wasn't part of the connected animated universe. So that kind of character change is not going anywhere.

[godisawesome]

I’ve generally been cold on the “New DCAU,” in part because it felt like combing two largely flawed ideas - trying to adapt stories at an uneven and in my opinion often inferior way, and having a connected universe... but a somewhat limited one. A lot of that has to do with me finding the creative teams somewhat lackluster, and a lot of adaptations changes and timeline decisions bad.... and having Young Justice to contrast with it.

It’s basically kind of what I think the New 52 would have been if it had been given more time; an attempt to hype up and repackage old stories, but often in an unsubtle, obnoxious, and often seeming to lack heart of other adaptations.

Like, Judas Contract was decent enough, but not really an exemplary superhero film, and that was when it was adjusting to a just plain sucky version of Deathstroke they’d introduced earlier into something better. Hush to me proved that there was a way to come up with a more anti-climactic and disappointing take on the original stories flaws, and combined with Damian’s portrayal to just make me think this version of the Batfamily was all sizzle and no steak - surely Jason O’Mara can put more into his vocal work than I’ve seen a cross these films, and this American voiced Damian gets treated a little bit too seriously for me ( I need some “he’s the Cousin Oliver of the Bat Family” or “my god, he doesn’t know how to play” jokes.)

And frankly, the whole line feels like it’s the dumb blockbuster universe of DC. The actions good, but the villains are generally so-so, there’s a lot of shock writing without much thought into the overall impact...

...Amd again, it just feels like an inferior project to sit through when Greg Weisman and co. are doing more with far more characters and with far greater talent in Young Justice.

[Frontier]

It’s basically kind of what I think the New 52 would have been if it had been given more time; an attempt to hype up and repackage old stories, but often in an unsubtle, obnoxious, and often seeming to lack heart of other adaptations.

I would argue to death the idea that the Superman and Titan films didn't have a lot of heart.

Like, Judas Contract was decent enough, but not really an exemplary superhero film, and that was when it was adjusting to a just plain sucky version of Deathstroke they’d introduced earlier into something better. Hush to me proved that there was a way to come up with a more anti-climactic and disappointing take on the original stories flaws, and combined with Damian’s portrayal to just make me think this version of the Batfamily was all sizzle and no steak - surely Jason O’Mara can put more into his vocal work than I’ve seen a cross these films, and this American voiced Damian gets treated a little bit too seriously for me ( I need some “he’s the Cousin Oliver of the Bat Family” or “my god, he doesn’t know how to play” jokes.)

I thought Judas Contract was a great adaption of the original story. I think it did a good job of capturing the core of the property and the storyline and condensing it into a single animated film. Miguel Ferrer was an awesome Deathstroke.

O'Mara's Batman can be really inconsistent, sounding solid in the Superman movies but weaker in his own solo films.

Damian's whole shtick is being the serious Robin, but he gets ribbed by Alfred, Dick, and the Titans in several movies.

And frankly, the whole line feels like it’s the dumb blockbuster universe of DC. The actions good, but the villains are generally so-so, there’s a lot of shock writing without much thought into the overall impact...

I thought Cyborg-Superman, Thawne, and Ferrer!Deathstroke were pretty great as far villains go.

...Amd again, it just feels like an inferior project to sit through when Greg Weisman and co. are doing more with far more characters and with far greater talent in Young Justice.

Objectively I would say the writing in YJ is better and more consistent than the shared continuity movies, but at the same time the shared continuity films have been able to get to and focus on characters/concepts that YJ would probably never get to because of it's strict focus on the younger generation and their mass of ongoing plotlines (almost to the point that those "far more characters" you mention often get reduced to window dressing).

Like, we've gotten more into Superman and Wonder Woman's characters and world in their solo films then we've really ever seen in three seasons of Young Justice. Obviously it's a show about the younger generation, but Bad Blood was 50% a Batwoman movie, Hush had Catwoman as a co-lead, Death/Reign prominently showcased Lois Lane and all the Supermen, Hell to Pay focused exclusively on villains and the Suicide Squad, Bloodlines had Villainy inc, all of which I don't think we'll be seeing prominently in Young Justice anytime soon.

[Vakanai]

I think Under the Red Hood was stronger then any of the solo in-continuity Batman movies, but I think those movies got to accomplish things that UtRH didn't, so I appreciate them.

There doesn't need to be a shared universe, but I don't think there being one is a bad thing in and of itself. And they never stopped making standalone films anyways.

Got any examples of what the in continuity movies accomplished that were worth the knock in quality? Honest question, I can't think of any worthwhile development I watched that was only possible because of the shared dtv movie universe.

The movies have gone down the hill. Red Son was awful. Wonder Woman is now a stereotypical lesbian hating male basher. Good to end it now before DC lets it completely fall off the cliff.

They're not ending the films - just the shared continuity. Red Son wasn't in continuity, so has nothing to do with this. They are still making animated movies, just ditching the continuity.

Most of the movies before this were based off of stand alone stories themselves. There really was no reason to reference any of the others. Does Superman exist in the Under the Red Hood universe? We don't know. There's no reference to him. I assume he does because of Amazo but there's nothing in the movie itself that states this. Now, Superman obviously needs to be part of Hush because that was in the comic. But it doesn't have to be a specific Superman. The Superman/Batman movies appeared to be part of the shared universe but it wasn't necessarily part of anything else. The movies based off of Miller's books don't necessarily need to be part of the same universe but they can be. And the other Justice League movies are up for debate. Doom. Crisis on Two Worlds, etc.

Yeah... I don't know what point you're trying to make?

[Frontier]

Got any examples of what the in continuity movies accomplished that were worth the knock in quality? Honest question, I can't think of any worthwhile development I watched that was only possible because of the shared dtv movie universe.

"knock in quality" is, of course, subjective. I liked seeing an established Justice League fight Doomsday, I liked seeing Damian Wayne's character development over the course of these films and then to see him join the Titans, Nightwing as an established member of the Batfamily and major figure on the Titans, Rainn Wilson as Lex Luthor, and just in general the characters and concepts the in-continuity movies were able to develop and expand on.

[Joker]

I really prefer the stand alone approach to these films. I want to watch one on a lark, not follow continuity.

I'm honestly exhausted by everything needing to be a shared universe. At this point it's a deterrent to me.

[Vakanai]

"knock in quality" is, of course, subjective. I liked seeing an established Justice League fight Doomsday, I liked seeing Damian Wayne's character development over the course of these films and then to see him join the Titans, Nightwing as an established member of the Batfamily and major figure on the Titans, Rainn Wilson as Lex Luthor, and just in general the characters and concepts the in-continuity movies were able to develop and expand on.

Eh...we could have had an established League fight Doomsday without the continuity, I mean Crisis on Two Earths, Doom, JLA Adventures Trapped in Time...

Damian...I've hated him in every in continuity movie to date. Not as bad in some of the later movies true, but still kind of unlikable.

Eh, I enjoyed Nightwing's appearances in the Lego DTV line and the 3 Batman Unlimited movies more than in these "in universe" movies. The only thing there that these films showed us better was the Dick/Starfire romance, and that could be shown in a standalone movie.

Rainn Wilson could have been cast to voice Lex in a standalone.

Really the only example that needed the continuity to be a thing was Damian's character developing. The rest didn't need these films to share continuity to happen.

Not saying you are wrong to like continuity or anything, and I will agree quality can be subjected, only pointing out that a lot of what you listed either has been or could have happened without the shared continuity.

[Osiris-Rex]

I'm all for stand alone movies. Never understood that shared universe obssession some fans seem to have.

I think it was because the Disney Marvel MCU films did so well. But they did well because they were well made movies, not because they were part of some shared universe. However other studios took away the idea that
the MCU did well because it was a shared universe. So they came to the conclusion that any crap foisted upon the audience would do well if it were in a shared universe. Now they are finally realizing that it is a good movie
people want to see. Hence why Joker did well even though it has zero connection to the DCEU.

[Confuzzled]

I really prefer the stand alone approach to these films. I want to watch one on a lark, not follow continuity.

I'm honestly exhausted by everything needing to be a shared universe. At this point it's a deterrent to me.

TBF these films weren't all that dependent on each other narratively speaking. I guess Hell to Pay had the big Flashpoint tie-in to Reverse Flash but that was a rarity (that worked), and I think someone who hadn't watched Flashpoint Paradox might still find Hell to Pay enjoyable enough as a standalone.

[Confuzzled]

I think it was because the Disney Marvel MCU films did so well.

Okay but DC animation did the shared universe thing about 15 years before the MCU. And to better effect at that. It's their legacy so they are validated in trying to replicate its success.

I also think the DCEU was far more inspired by the DCAU than the MCU.

[Noodle]

My problem with the shared continuity films were that they tried to force it into pre-existing stories and it only hampered the pre-existing stories. If they did them as completely original movies I would have been more OK with it. If you're marketing a movie as "The Judas Contract" or "Hush" I want to see those movies adapted in animation. Not some warped version of it to match the last 8 movies you did.

[Joker]

TBF these films weren't all that dependent on each other narratively speaking. I guess Hell to Pay had the big Flashpoint tie-in to Reverse Flash but that was a rarity (that worked), and I think someone who hadn't watched Flashpoint Paradox might still find Hell to Pay enjoyable enough as a standalone.

I started reading comics when there were editor notes telling you what issue it was referencing, and your only hope of reading that issue was borrowing, or back issue digging. So I'll be fine, but I like them better when each one is just its own story.

[Frontier]

Eh...we could have had an established League fight Doomsday without the continuity, I mean Crisis on Two Earths, Doom, JLA Adventures Trapped in Time...

Yeah, but we've seen this League over the course of a few movies and with an established dynamic with Clark, so I felt like the effect was more poignant.

Damian...I've hated him in every in continuity movie to date. Not as bad in some of the later movies true, but still kind of unlikable.

Damian's always been a love or hate him character. The films stayed true in that respect from the comics.

Eh, I enjoyed Nightwing's appearances in the Lego DTV line and the 3 Batman Unlimited movies more than in these "in universe" movies. The only thing there that these films showed us better was the Dick/Starfire romance, and that could be shown in a standalone movie.
Rainn Wilson could have been cast to voice Lex in a standalone.

I personally like Sean Maher's Dick and what we've gotten to see him do.

"Could" doesn't necessarily mean "would," and at least in the case of a shared continuity we got to see more of that then we would have in the standalones.

Really the only example that needed the continuity to be a thing was Damian's character developing. The rest didn't need these films to share continuity to happen.

Not saying you are wrong to like continuity or anything, and I will agree quality can be subjected, only pointing out that a lot of what you listed either has been or could have happened without the shared continuity.

I don't think it would have been the same though, if only because conceptually they went into these story beats and decisions with the shared universe in mind. Maybe they could have done them as standalones and incorporated all that, but they didn't, so it's a moot point.

My problem with the shared continuity films were that they tried to force it into pre-existing stories and it only hampered the pre-existing stories. If they did them as completely original movies I would have been more OK with it. If you're marketing a movie as "The Judas Contract" or "Hush" I want to see those movies adapted in animation. Not some warped version of it to match the last 8 movies you did.

But those films essentially did adapt those stories into animation. I mean, Hush may have messed with the ending but 88-90% of the story was from the comics.

Just because it was adapted into an established continuity doesn't negate it as an adaption in my opinion. Superman: Doomsday was a standalone film adaption of Death of Superman but the in-continuity adaption was much more truer to the comic storyline.

[Vakanai]

Yeah, but we've seen this League over the course of a few movies and with an established dynamic with Clark, so I felt like the effect was more poignant.

Maybe if the JL team up movies were better and the established dynamics had any meat on them bones, but with we got, it was no more poignant to me than if it had been a standalone. This version of the JL after all those movies had no more interest to me personally than a new take would have. There was just too much lacking in quality for me.

Damian's always been a love or hate him character. The films stayed true in that respect from the comics.

I don't know, even some Damian fans didn't like this version (there were reviews when the films were new).

I personally like Sean Maher's Dick and what we've gotten to see him do.

The voice actor was fine, pretty good really, but again nothing that couldn't have been in a standalone, and the scripts and dialogue he got could've been a lot better. Again I liked him more in the Lego and Batman Unlimited stuff.

"Could" doesn't necessarily mean "would," and at least in the case of a shared continuity we got to see more of that then we would have in the standalones.

Maybe, maybe not. Again, the very, very few things that might have needed the shared continuity to happen (and there's not a lot) doesn't justify the dip in quality (my opinion). Hard to argue "would" and "could" happens, who knows what would have happened without the continuity. Could have still gotten a lot.

I don't think it would have been the same though, if only because conceptually they went into these story beats and decisions with the shared universe in mind. Maybe they could have done them as standalones and incorporated all that, but they didn't, so it's a moot point.

Yes, but while you prove there's an exception to very rule - most people didn't like that they did these story beats and decisions with this shared universe in mind. A lot of us felt the end result was weaker for it. Look at all the complaints about various adaptations and decisions for these movies.

But those films essentially did adapt those stories into animation. I mean, Hush may have messed with the ending but 88-90% of the story was from the comics.

And yet a lot of people still complained about the change.

Just because it was adapted into an established continuity doesn't negate it as an adaption in my opinion. Superman: Doomsday was a standalone film adaption of Death of Superman but the in-continuity adaption was much more truer to the comic storyline.

True Death of Superman was a lot better than Doomsday - I never argued that all standalones were better or all shared continuity films are crap. I'm just arguing the averages. DoS is the one really shiny jewel of the continuity films. But the standalones have more. Plus that film could have just as easily been standalone and retained most of what made it good.


I'm sorry if you're really going to miss this iteration of continuity, but I'm a lot, lot more excited and hopeful for the future movies now with this shared universe behind us than I was when it still seemed ongoing for the foreseeable future. I have only been looking forward to the out of continuity releases for like 3 years now. I've just had my fingers crossed on every in continuity film hoping they'll be better this time (and occasionally they have). Without continuity, I don't have to cross my fingers so much. Yeah there will be mediocre films, there will be clunkers, but I have faith that the average will be higher than it's been in years.