Times when humans were genuinely concerned over the well-being of mutants.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I'm fine with all of this, I just personally don't agree with the notion that the mutants are being selfish supremacists when they're on their own in their struggles, even if it is an editorial decision.

You don't seem fine with this. People call them mutant supremacists for valid reasons, it wasn't picked out of thin air at random. Hickman hasn't been shy about seeding this through the Krakoa culture.

https://abload.de/img/1288kjm.jpg

It being an editorial decision is the elephant in the room which needs to bought up more often rather than ignored, that's part of the context for all this.

Mutants build Krakoa.
People scream they're not heroes anymore and are selfish separatists.
Mutant Fans argue they have to do this because they're not getting help while mutant children are still being hunted.
People scream that's an editorial decision.
Round and round we go in the same circular debate.

This simplifies the arguments into being far too thin and unnecessarily draws the line between those who "support" Krakoa as being right and those who don't as wrong. This omits the narrative about how X-men belong in the Marvel universe, rather than outside of it. We're all X-fans here. It being an editorial decision is a fact, as is with all the decisions over the years since X-men has been published. Circular arguments are part of of fandom, as well.

Edit: I'll add that Krakoa is segregationist and isolationist, rather than inclusive like the traditional X-men were. The X-men are dead, the state of Krakoa has filled this gap in the Marvel lines.

[BroHomo]

I'm fine with all of this, I just personally don't agree with the notion that the mutants are being selfish supremacists when they're on their own in their struggles, even if it is an editorial decision.

Mutants build Krakoa.
People scream they're not heroes anymore and are selfish separatists.
Mutant Fans argue they have to do this because they're not getting help while mutant children are still being hunted.
People scream that's an editorial decision.
Round and round we go in the same circular debate.

Ugh yes to all of this

You don't seem fine with this. People call them mutant supremacists for valid reasons, it wasn't picked out of thin air at random. Hickman hasn't been shy about seeding this through the Krakoa culture.

https://abload.de/img/1288kjm.jpg

Having people misconstrue your writing isnt seeding tho...It seems you and posters who think the XMen are segregating themselves are taking a literal reading to Hickmans non literal writings
Nothing about the pic you posted besides having the words 'Mutant' and 'Supre' has anything to do with Mutant Supremacy. What exactly is a mutant supremacist ? A mutant who takes a prideful outlook on their genetic situation? A mutant who believes in the science of Homo Superior? I guess Cap America is a supremacist
For being a 'super soldier'?
WHEN someone says Girl Power!Are you immediately on the defense of male positions of powers? Do you immediately call them a female supremacist?

It being an editorial decision is the elephant in the room which needs 'to bought up more often rather than ignored, that's part of the context for all this.

How so?

Edit: I'll add that Krakoa is segregationist and isolationist, rather than inclusive like the traditional X-men were. The X-men are dead, the state of Krakoa has filled this gap in the Marvel lines.

Well I mean you're obviously wrong people have given examples, posted scans that prove otherwise. There are humans living on the island....FACT. Thee X-Men continue to be a public force for the good of mankind rescuing people and saving the World...FACT.

[JB]

You don't seem fine with this. People call them mutant supremacists for valid reasons, it wasn't picked out of thin air at random. Hickman hasn't been shy about seeding this through the Krakoa culture.

https://abload.de/img/1288kjm.jpg

It being an editorial decision is the elephant in the room which needs to bought up more often rather than ignored, that's part of the context for all this.



This simplifies the arguments into being far too thin and unnecessarily draws the line between those who "support" Krakoa as being right and those who don't as wrong. This omits the narrative about how X-men belong in the Marvel universe, rather than outside of it. We're all X-fans here. It being an editorial decision is a fact, as is with all the decisions over the years since X-men has been published. Circular arguments are part of of fandom, as well.

Edit: I'll add that Krakoa is segregationist and isolationist, rather than inclusive like the traditional X-men were. The X-men are dead, the state of Krakoa has filled this gap in the Marvel lines.

All of which is your take, and I'm fine with that as I said. And humans are welcome on Krakoa if escorted by a mutant. Why? Because mutant children are still being rounded up so just opening it up in the nation's infancy to all is a dangerous move.

But you've also shown you're not reading most of the books which are showing on page answers to your arguments. So there's really no point in going further.

[JB]

Do the human heroes even know anything about this in the first place? Nothing has really shown that Krakoa has shared anything about this beyond themselves.

Krakoa doesn't know what's happening on Mercury either but my point was that it's far-fetched to think no one has noticed a massive project which uses tech from various groups such as SHIELD. Aren't there heroes that watch over the cosmos and such? The universes are separate though so we take it for what it is and I'm cool with that.

[useridgoeshere]

Krakoa doesn't know what's happening on Mercury either but my point was that it's far-fetched to think no one has noticed a massive project which uses tech from various groups such as SHIELD. Aren't there heroes that watch over the cosmos and such? The universes are separate though so we take it for what it is and I'm cool with that.

Orchis’ base is Reed and Tony’s construction. At best, someone could claim willful neglect on their part. That’s the nicest interpretation.

[Glio]

Creating weapons capable of destroying planets and then not guaranteeing that they don't fall into the wrong hands is Tony Stark 100%.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Having people misconstrue your writing isnt seeding tho...It seems you and posters who think the XMen are segregating themselves are taking a literal reading to Hickmans non literal writings'

Except they're not doing that and many agree by shrugging it off when it's bought up. When the biggest human presence is the supporting cast of the books is a baby maybe the society they belong to has problems with segregation?

Nothing about the pic you posted besides having the words 'Mutant' and 'Supre' has anything to do with Mutant Supremacy.

He literally shouts "Mutants supremacy" and nobody bats an eye. When would Wolverine or Cable be ok with such a comment in their presence?

What exactly is a mutant supremacist ? A mutant who takes a prideful outlook on their genetic situation? A mutant who believes in the science of Homo Superior? I guess Cap America is a supremacist
For being a 'super soldier'?
WHEN someone says Girl Power!Are you immediately on the defense of male positions of powers? Do you immediately call them a female supremacist?

The books have been filled with mutant supremacy since 1963, it began with Magneto himself.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8O38L16sw...ck-Kirby-2.jpg

This is when mutants are a secret and Sentinels haven't been created, and won't become a re-occuring threat until after Sebastian Shaw makes a contract with the government to manufacture them for revenge against what the X-men did to the Hellfire Cub during the Dark Phoenix Saga.

The X-men have been proud of who they mutant heritage but they're never been supremacists. They view everyone as equal. Red Skull's the "super-soldier supremacist," not Rogers. Don't dilute my argument to create straw men.

How so?

Editorial and writers dictate what goes in the books, the X-men don't write these themselves. Hickman has the honour of being the most powerful writer in the X-line for generations.

Well I mean you're obviously wrong people have given examples, posted scans that prove otherwise. There are humans living on the island....FACT. Thee X-Men continue to be a public force for the good of mankind rescuing people and saving the World...FACT.

Where? I've asked and gotten a baby and someones partner, there isn't a flourishing human community there. Look at the culture on the island and guess what they all have in common? There are numerous races, both human and not, which should be there but they aren't. They haven't given any examples deputing this. We'd have known Krakoa having large communities of humans, Moloids, Inhumans and other races but they are mysterious not there whenever there are celebrations or any other activity. Where is this supposedly large community in the government? The X-men don't exist currently, all there is is Krakoa.

[JB]

Where is this supposedly large community in the government? The X-men don't exist currently, all there is is Krakoa.

The nation is still in its infancy (a few months?) and most of what X-Force explores is building out its infrastructure and security. Remember that Krakoa wouldn't have to exist if mutants could live safely anywhere else.

Broo was apartment-searching recently and considering how that things ended before the shutdown, Krakoa may have some Brood residents. At least I'm hoping so.

And you're not entirely wrong about this currently being a Krakoa story rather than X-Men as Hickman eluded to at C2E2:

Hickman talks about X-Men, saying he gave an outline for the first 12 issues. Originally were going to have each of the 1st twelve issues would launch a new book, but not how it ended up. "There's going to be a shift coming, and when that does it will kind of go back to a structure with what we're talking about: X-Men, heroes of Krakoa. Then other things will happen. I'm intentionally introducing individual elements that are going to get collapsed later. It's funny - I've done this trick before, but the X-Men fans don't read the other Marvel books I've done."

That's why I'm sitting back and enjoying the ride as things unfold.

[Havok83]

The X-men don't exist currently, all there is is Krakoa.

Huh? Krakoa is home to a ton of X-men

[Devaishwarya]

The funny thing is...There are "X-Men fans" who apparently don't read these X-Men books either.

[Steel Inquisitor]

The nation is still in its infancy (a few months?) and most of what X-Force explores is building out its infrastructure and security. Remember that Krakoa wouldn't have to exist if mutants could live safely anywhere else.

That's no excuse to ignore the problematic implications and why wouldn't anyone be talking about these subjects right now? There are thousands of people evolves in Krakoa, they're making a transition not building a moiety from scratch. They know all about the imperfections of society, they're bringing it with them.

Broo was apartment-searching recently and considering how that things ended before the shutdown, Krakoa may have some Brood residents. At least I'm hoping so.

They're only there because of Broo, they don't get a say in anything. It's not like Krakoa has a large group of Inhumans on the coast.

And you're not entirely wrong about this currently being a Krakoa story rather than X-Men as Hickman eluded to at C2E2:

Hickman talks about X-Men, saying he gave an outline for the first 12 issues. Originally were going to have each of the 1st twelve issues would launch a new book, but not how it ended up. "There's going to be a shift coming, and when that does it will kind of go back to a structure with what we're talking about: X-Men, heroes of Krakoa. Then other things will happen. I'm intentionally introducing individual elements that are going to get collapsed later. It's funny - I've done this trick before, but the X-Men fans don't read the other Marvel books I've done."

That's why I'm sitting back and enjoying the ride as things unfold.

You can do that and question things. Hickman has made it very clear things are built on a house of cards.

[PrezValentine]

All this discussion feels very circular. People who are on the "X-Men are no more because I said so" will never budge, no matter what the books say. We do indeed have humans who are sympathetic towards mutants, fortunately enough. Even if they are few and some of them have an unhealthy view of mutants. The fact remains that the most recent extinction menace had nearly all of the Marvel humans being very pro eliminating mutants through vaccine, killing random mutants in the street and supporting politicians with a very anti mutant rhetoric. Thankfully Xavier didn't give up on humanity yet. Even if Marvel humans only need one green skinned dude to speak too loud at a Walmart to scream MUTANT MENACE.

[JB]

That's no excuse to ignore the problematic implications and why wouldn't anyone be talking about these subjects right now? There are thousands of people evolves in Krakoa, they're making a transition not building a moiety from scratch. They know all about the imperfections of society, they're bringing it with them.

The island has been attacked already in just a few short months and the X-Men are still rescuing mutant children being held captive. Priorities.

[Havok83]

Krakoa is a nation that is made up primarily of mutant citizens. So? What the hell is the big issue with that?

[Devaishwarya]

It's all very circular because we are still engaging the same posters who make the same remarks day after day, week after week, month after month, without adding anything new, relevant, interesting.

And while it's not about "convincing" anyone about who's right or wrong or to change their points of view...it's the same rhetoric we've ALL been reading/defending since HoX 01 started...months ago.

Alas...I guess with no new comics, now and for the foreseeable future, we're all stuck on this particular old, rusty carousel.