Times when humans were genuinely concerned over the well-being of mutants.

[BroHomo]

Except they're not doing that and many agree by shrugging it off when it's bought up. When the biggest human presence is the supporting cast of the books is a baby maybe the society they belong to has problems with segregation?

No! Maybe some posers just arent comfortable with the thought of the majority being excluded from anything? I'm not sure what you are expecting of KraKoa a brand spanking new nation for mutants can live safely, built form the ground up on the back of a mutant. What claim do humans have to it? what right?
Why do you expect this run of Xmen to have a big human supporting cast? This just seems random. there have Never been 2 or 3 human supporting chars at a time in an XBook. With the resurrection protocols being a thing The backlog of XCharacters to play with is enormous. WHYYYY would anyone want to write/read about some rando human anthropology...or IT specialist etc. Where is the mutant presence in the Avengers books? ooor the Inhuman one? In the first run Avengers Unity Squad where was the minority presence? Throughout it's whole run the only mutants they included looked human...were was the non human looking mutants presence?

He literally shouts "Mutants supremacy" and nobody bats an eye. When would Wolverine or Cable be ok with such a comment in their presence?

It's literally the same as someone saying "Girl Power!" or "I Rock!" or "Black Power!" Do you find that to be Supremacist jargon?

The books have been filled with mutant supremacy since 1963, it began with Magneto himself.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8O38L16sw...ck-Kirby-2.jpg

This is when mutants are a secret and Sentinels haven't been created, and won't become a re-occuring threat until after Sebastian Shaw makes a contract with the government to manufacture them for revenge against what the X-men did to the Hellfire Cub during the Dark Phoenix Saga.

Read Uncanny Xmen-1 canonically The Sentinels had been around long before the X-men
The X-men have been proud of who they mutant heritage but they're never been supremacists. They view everyone as equal. Red Skull's the "super-soldier supremacist," not Rogers. Don't dilute my argument to create straw men. [/QUOTE]
Your argument is based on personal opinion and ignores there on the page. Unless you have scans of The Xmen supporting the discrimination of humans. Then....

Where? I've asked and gotten a baby and someones partner, there isn't a flourishing human community there. Look at the culture on the island and guess what they all have in common? There are numerous races, both human and not, which should be there but they aren't. They haven't given any examples deputing this. We'd have known Krakoa having large communities of humans, Moloids, Inhumans and other races but they are mysterious not there whenever there are celebrations or any other activity. Where is this supposedly large community in the government? The X-men don't exist currently, all there is is Krakoa.

Dude, before Xavier and Moira got this plan going There. Was. No. KraKoa. Where are you getting that all these people should be living there?

Krakoa is a nation that is made up primarily of mutant citizens. So? What the hell is the big issue with that?

I guess the X-motto of being hated and feared extends to our universe as well? lol

Alas...I guess with no new comics, now and for the foreseeable future, we're all stuck on this particular old, rusty carousel.

Well as long as I get to ride the unicorn. Im just find. lol

I agree its circular its not really not helping anyone to just let people spout whatever skewed interpretation of the Xmen that is dripping in personal biases

[Steel Inquisitor]

No! Maybe some posers just arent comfortable with the thought of the majority being excluded from anything? I'm not sure what you are expecting of KraKoa a brand spanking new nation for mutants can live safely, built form the ground up on the back of a mutant. What claim do humans have to it? what right?

Inclusivity is the goal, not something to run away from. Judging people by their genes is wrong, and so is having a caste system. Any nation which decree that other races must have be monitored at all times and are barred from government is wrong. Except I'm not talking about "the majority" - and when this comes to humans, this gets even messier. It's not like all humans are equal, there are racial barriers as well as sex and gender based ones. What does it mean to be "human" in Marvel? Unlike our world this happens to encompass mutated humans, like the Fantastic Four, except it's been shown that they have their own struggles and hierarchies. Ben Grimm is going to have harder time finding a job than Peter Parker, despite the fact he's a world famous super-hero. What about Moloids? Are they human? Having a nation isn't the same as just doing the same thing but changing who the people who belong at the bottom of the social order is. Of course, on krakoa this is taken to the extreme because it's not that there is no social order it's that humans and other non-mutants don't have a choice in being there. They're non existence speaks volumes in a society that is incredibly progressive and inclusive - as long as you are a mutant.

It's a country, they're not "claiming" anything. Immigration and acceptance of races, creed and ethnicities different from your own isn't bad.

Why do you expect this run of Xmen to have a big human supporting cast? This just seems random. there have Never been 2 or 3 human supporting chars at a time in an XBook. With the resurrection protocols being a thing The backlog of XCharacters to play with is enormous. WHYYYY would anyone want to write/read about some rando human anthropology...or IT specialist etc. Where is the mutant presence in the Avengers books? ooor the Inhuman one? In the first run Avengers Unity Squad where was the minority presence? Throughout it's whole run the only mutants they included looked human...were was the non human looking mutants presence?

I expect some human representation, something - which is what they used to have. Love interests, government officials from other nations whatever - now they're all gone. It's not random, it's identifying what's missing from Krakoa, like democracy. I'll have to research further to identify what sort of government it fits under because it's not democratic in the least. Even amongst the Quiet Council there's an unofficial hierarchy, which has Xavier higher than Emma Frost.

Avengers books have had mutants since the second roster. They have Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Wolverine, Namor, Quake and Beast. And the Unity Squad, which added members like Rogue. Inhuman members include Crystal, from the 90's. They have a wide variety of races in their ranks, from normal humans of varies ethnicities to robots to aliens. The Unity Squad was decades after mutant first appearance in the Avengers, they did that in the 70's.

The X-men have been chided on having pretty human looking mutants on the squad, aside from Beast, since the Morlocks and haven't change much. It wasn't until Morrison that they really made an appearance while the less human looking mutants sometimes got supporting roles in series like Generation X. Its be fascinating to loo over the X-men and see where they fall with membership when it comes to women, non white ethnicities and mutants who can't pass for human over their long history. This was the very first roster in 1963, it wasn't until Claremont and Wein that actual minorities would join the squad.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...nal_X-Men.jpeg

Bobby wouldn't be confirmed to be gay until Bendis' run.

Bigotry and oppression are the enemy, not inclusivity.

It's literally the same as someone saying "Girl Power!" or "I Rock!" or "Black Power!" Do you find that to be Supremacist jargon?

It really isn't. Supremacist ideologies are about being dominant not equalising, it's why bigotry is a problem - it weaponises that to oppress other races ad creeds. Which numerous mutants have been doing since the X-men were created. Embracing your culture and idolising supremacist ideology are not he same thing, the X-men have always done the former and their mutant villains did the latter. That's a key reason why they're villains.

Read Uncanny Xmen-1 canonically The Sentinels had been around long before the X-men
The X-men have been proud of who they mutant heritage but they're never been supremacists. They view everyone as equal. Red Skull's the "super-soldier supremacist," not Rogers. Don't dilute my argument to create straw men.

Your argument is based on personal opinion and ignores there on the page. Unless you have scans of The Xmen supporting the discrimination of humans. Then....[/quote]

I've given you plenty of evidence to analyse, including going back to the first issue ever published of X-men. Discrimination isn't just about being up front and wearing a white hood, its insidious. That's the danger of letting mutant supremacists in, and not telling them no when they get out of line. When characters like Cable and Wolverine don't shut down mutant supremacist language, like in Cable #1, they allow it to be normalised. It's not like they don't know any futures which are just as bad as the Sentinels from "Days of Future Past" - one of the people responsible for one is on the Quiet Council as we speak. The only reason that occurred in the first place is from Legion going back in time and killing Xavier before he could form the X-men. Old Cable comes from a future where he did again, as well.

How did you come to the opinion that Cap was a "super soldier supremacist"?

Dude, before Xavier and Moira got this plan going There. Was. No. KraKoa. Where are you getting that all these people should be living there?

I'm talking about after Krakoa got established. Krakoa isn't an impoverished third world nation which has no resources, despite its remarkably short time frame it's become a dominating power on the world stage with a strong economy and large scale corporations and groups funding it. It's a first world nation, with another dimension as a puppet state. They didn't set up shop last week with nothing.

Of course people of all kinds would be interested in visiting and living there, since it's a country. All countries have tourism and welcome immigrants, or should. We've seen how disastrous they look when they don't.

I guess the X-motto of being hated and feared extends to our universe as well? lol
Well as long as I get to ride the unicorn. Im just find. lol

I agree its circular its not really not helping anyone to just let people spout whatever skewed interpretation of the Xmen that is dripping in personal biases

Everyone has personal biases, and everyone has circular arguments. It's not like we haven't been though this before from angles and since corona virus has stopped the comic industry cold we're stuck analysing the issues which were published rather than getting new material.

[Glio]

It is literally written in the comics that the X-Men still exist, they are the group that Cyclops leads as Captain Commander. The only difference is that it is now a massive organization that is flexible with the superheroes it recruits as needed, like Hickman's Avengers World. If necessary, they are all potential X-men to be recruited by Scott.

[JB]

I expect some human representation, something - which is what they used to have. Love interests, government officials from other nations whatever - now they're all gone. It's not random, it's identifying what's missing from Krakoa, like democracy. I'll have to research further to identify what sort of government it fits under because it's not democratic in the least. Even amongst the Quiet Council there's an unofficial hierarchy, which has Xavier higher than Emma Frost.

It's coming as Leah and Tini announced they'll be writing about this. So many "issues" people have with Krakoa end up being addressed, we just have to be patient. The mutants are still bouncing back from the dire situation that was Uncanny right before Hickman. Let's get the millions of missing mutants resurrected and settled first.

At the end of the day, Moira knows what she knows so they're following her plan which very well may include not having a big human population on the island. It's simply not a priority right now.

[Devaishwarya]

I agree its circular its not really not helping anyone to just let people spout whatever skewed interpretation of the Xmen that is dripping in personal biases

I've already chosen my ride. The Unicorn is definitely reserved for you.

Who are we trying to "help" really?
Spouting their skewed interpretation of the X-Men dripping in personal biases, is really only 'problematic' for them. They read what they want, understand what they want and believe what they want. But that does not change how you, me and others read, understand and believe what we want (and yes, with our very own personal biases).
It is what it is.
While it's great to have healthy enlightening debates and discussions...for the past months, certain interactions in these fora pertaining specifically to HiX-Man's X-Men plans and executions have been anything but healthy or enlightening. At what point in this intellectually abusive relationship do we break the cycle?

[Havok83]

It is literally written in the comics that the X-Men still exist, they are the group that Cyclops leads as Captain Commander. The only difference is that it is now a massive organization that is flexible with the superheroes it recruits as needed, like Hickman's Avengers World. If necessary, they are all potential X-men to be recruited by Scott.

Sounds like the Fraction era where the only official team of X-men were the New Mutants. Everyone else was flexible depending on the main book (Uncanny) and any minis/oneshots released in that era

[JB]

Sounds like the Fraction era where the only official team of X-men were the New Mutants. Everyone else was flexible depending on the main book (Uncanny) and any minis/oneshots released in that era

Right, and I personally like that kind of setup. I remember back in the day people complaining that the mansion was too isolated from the other mutants of the world. That the X-Men were safe and cozy in their expensive home while others suffered. That of course wasn't true but now we have all of the mutants together on a space big enough for them so why not rotate them. I love that Emma is financially taking care of the Morlocks even though they've chosen not to live on the island.

[Devaishwarya]

I love this flexible set up as well with regards to HiX-Man's X-Men and we still get the structured teams of Marauders and Excalibur and Hellions etc. that are still not as rigid days of yore.

[BroHomo]

I've already chosen my ride. The Unicorn is definitely reserved for you.

I call the front...

Who are we trying to "help" really?
Spouting their skewed interpretation of the X-Men dripping in personal biases, is really only 'problematic' for them. They read what they want, understand what they want and believe what they want. But that does not change how you, me and others read, understand and believe what we want (and yes, with our very own personal biases).
It is what it is.
While it's great to have healthy enlightening debates and discussions...for the past months, certain interactions in these fora pertaining specifically to HiX-Man's X-Men plans and executions have been anything but healthy or enlightening. At what point in this intellectually abusive relationship do we break the cycle?

Ugh Dude I get what youre saying...and for the most part I dont really see the point of a rebuttal, the urge to respond has increased exponentially since the dawning of this age of misinformation' and 'fake news' With the popularity of the movies, more folks will be exposed to the story and chars. having some hopelessly skewed agendist rhetoric, being repeated as truths just gives me the creeps.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Ugh Dude I get what youre saying...and for the most part I dont really see the point of a rebuttal, the urge to respond has increased exponentially since the dawning of this age of misinformation' and 'fake news' With the popularity of the movies, more folks will be exposed to the story and chars. having some hopelessly skewed agendist rhetoric, being repeated as truths just gives me the creeps.

Wait, what? Nothing I've said has been "misinformation" or "fake news."

As of now I think Krakoa's government fits the autocracy and oligarchy definitions. They both described the Quiet Council's influence and political control over the country.

[People Of The Earth]

I realised this MONTHS ago when that People of the earth poster was running amok and spreading all the anti Krakoa propaganda.

Circular debates in the void give me grey pubes.

I know you Didn't actually read the content of my posts in order to come up with such a ridiculous take on them.
That, or you missed the point of said posts altogether.

Regrettable in both cases.

As for this thread, I thought it was about celebrating the fact there are sapiens who actually showed support to mutantkind throughout the year? Why did it devolve into a debate about the Avengers not helping the X-Men enough, or the sapien population being closet hatemongers again?

Someone asked about how to break the cycle of intellectual abuse when interacting people on this forum, maybe doing so from a thread who isn't actively hijacked by some posters would be a good start...
Reading the actual posts people decide to answer to is also helping, but alas this one will fall on deaf ears I'm certain.

Just a thread acknowledging the more positive aspects of the Marvel universe in regards to mutants, which have included humans whom were actually concerned for mutants instead of being against them, such as:

The police officers who defended Kitty from Stryker in Marvel Graphic Novel #5 (1982):



The general from The Uncanny X-Men #190 (February, 1985):



The pro-mutant activists from X-Men: Gold #16 (January, 2018):

Just a reminder of what this thread was supposed to be about, eventhough it didn't even reach two pages before someone hijacked it…
Still, great examples to kickstart things

[JB]

Wait, what? Nothing I've said has been "misinformation" or "fake news."

As of now I think Krakoa's government fits the autocracy and oligarchy definitions. They both described the Quiet Council's influence and political control over the country.

But when you say the mutants don't care about humanity or the outside world, despite plenty of examples in the current era, it feels disingenuous.

Just a reminder of what this thread was supposed to be about, eventhough it didn't even reach two pages before someone hijacked it…
Still, great examples to kickstart things

X-Force has showcased a few:

- The businessman who helped with negotiations between his nation and Krakoa, who also invested heavily in X-Corp.
- The prominent journalist in Toronto who had published several pro-mutant editorials.
- The Japanese politician who loudly advocated for the treaty with Krakoa.
- A priest in the Order of X.
- And of course the human allies working at Greenspace. I have to imagine that there are human allies working at Xavier's other facilities.

Sadly, all of them were murdered for being mutant supporters. There's an agenda to keep an anti-mutant narrative and silencing any support.

Thankfully Professor Elise Irene Owsley, "an evolutionary biologist who has long been a staunch defender of mutant rights". Luckily she was saved by Domino and I'm hoping we get to see more of her. Her stance for over a decade has been that mutant sovereignty was an inevitability.

We also had the famous dinner in X-Men #4 where the Wakandan Attaché, Chinese Ambassador, and the Indian business rep were cordial and friendly with Magneto. More of that please!

[Ferro]

there arent any more examples, it wasnt highjacked we simply have no more examples to talk about

[JB]

there arent any more examples, it wasnt highjacked we simply have no more examples to talk about

Yeah, been trying to think of more from the past but not sure any others exist.

[Steel Inquisitor]

But when you say the mutants don't care about humanity or the outside world, despite plenty of examples in the current era, it feels disingenuous.

Those are exceptions. In the comics characters like Wolverine never would have accepted anyone saying "mutant supremacy" without irony in his presence. They're far from being warm about humans like they used to be. Cyke didn't constantly getting into arguments with Sue Storm over mutant rights until the last few years.


[quote]X-Force has showcased a few:

- The businessman who helped with negotiations between his nation and Krakoa, who also invested heavily in X-Corp.
- The prominent journalist in Toronto who had published several pro-mutant editorials.
- The Japanese politician who loudly advocated for the treaty with Krakoa.
- A priest in the Order of X.
- And of course the human allies working at Greenspace. I have to imagine that there are human allies working at Xavier's other facilities.

Sadly, all of them were murdered for being mutant supporters. There's an agenda to keep an anti-mutant narrative and silencing any support.

Which is a sub-plot, not a standard part of the setting.

Thankfully Professor Elise Irene Owsley, "an evolutionary biologist who has long been a staunch defender of mutant rights". Luckily she was saved by Domino and I'm hoping we get to see more of her. Her stance for over a decade has been that mutant sovereignty was an inevitability.

Is she going to join the supporting cast?

We also had the famous dinner in X-Men #4 where the Wakandan Attaché, Chinese Ambassador, and the Indian business rep were cordial and friendly with Magneto. More of that please!

The one where Magneto and Apocalypse terrified people at?