Times when humans were genuinely concerned over the well-being of mutants.

[Huntsman Spider]

When I religiously used to read X-Men. There were not many family human members who wanted to still accept their mutant kids. Outside of Kurt's adoptive parents and Mama Guthrie, most mutants are not just an outcast to society but an outcast with their family.

Does anyone remember this moment from one of their movies.



It had everything.

a very concerned mother
a disappointed father
a disgusted brother.

That is indeed the tragedy of being a mutant, not only being rejected by society at large, but also your own family, the very people you thought would stand by you no matter what. With that being the case for so many mutants, no wonder they're willing to walk away from human society altogether vis-à-vis Krakoa.

[Electricmastro]

When I religiously used to read X-Men. There were not many family human members who wanted to still accept their mutant kids. Outside of Kurt's adoptive parents and Mama Guthrie, most mutants are not just an outcast to society but an outcast with their family.

Does anyone remember this moment from one of their movies.



It had everything.

a very concerned mother
a disappointed father
a disgusted brother.

Indeed, as well as how I recall how some people compared that with gay people coming out of the closet, at least with their family. Or even then, I’m sure a lot of teens who aren’t gay could relate to that as well simply because of feeling like they don’t belong in general. I think that with that, there comes along a reasonable enough hope that you’ll come to belong somewhere. Not just with “your own kind,” but getting to belong somewhere in perhaps the most unexpected of places. Despite all the negatives life can bring, that feeling can still bring a sort of... magical spark that could motivate one’s self to conclude that life is still worth living on Earth despite its setbacks.

[BroHomo]

When I religiously used to read X-Men. There were not many family human members who wanted to still accept their mutant kids.

They still don't....

That is indeed the tragedy of being a mutant, not only being rejected by society at large, but also your own family, the very people you thought would stand by you no matter what. With that being the case for so many mutants, no wonder they're willing to walk away from human society altogether vis-à-vis Krakoa.

Bruh my bags already packed for KraKoa

I think that with that, there comes along a reasonable enough hope that you’ll come to belong somewhere. Not just with “your own kind,” but getting to belong somewhere in perhaps the most unexpected of places. Despite all the negatives life can bring, that feeling can still bring a sort of... magical spark that could motivate one’s self to conclude that life is still worth living on Earth despite its setbacks.

Can you clarify??

[Huntsman Spider]

They still don't....

Bruh my bags already packed for KraKoa

Can you clarify??

I think Electricmastro means that he still hopes that somewhere down the line, people will come to be able to accept and embrace each other in spite or even because of their differences. I might not see that happening anytime soon, especially nowadays, but it's a good hope to have.

[Electricmastro]

I think Electricmastro means that he still hopes that somewhere down the line, people will come to be able to accept and embrace each other in spite or even because of their differences. I might not see that happening anytime soon, especially nowadays, but it's a good hope to have.

I suppose some could condemn me of being too ignorantly optimistic, and fine, they have the free will to have that view after all, and I also have nothing against fans who are persistent in believing that life in the Marvel Universe will be extremely crappy for all mutants in human societies no matter what. Some others could perhaps be cynical and pessimistic to the point that Krakoa won’t be around for too long since, this being fiction, any writer could just write that away without being obligated to fans to give a decent explanation.

That said, I have to wonder, what exactly makes some fans persistent and so quickly ready to believe that life on Earth will always be extremely crappy for all mutants no matter what, and no matter how much time passes? And, considering the reflections to real life, could they possibly think similarly of real life minorities too? Wouldn’t thinking like that for long enough drive someone crazy? That life on Earth is said to be so hopeless and so terrible because of all the bad people to the point that life isn’t worth living on it anymore? This isn’t meant to downplay the hardships minorities have in real life of course, but in regards to whether life is worth living or not, well, that’s another story, isn’t it?

As for me, I recall series like Star Trek have taught me that it’s indeed possible for living beings of considerably different backgrounds, even living beings with special abilities, to work together as equals towards a greater good, in spite of all the past atrocities, in spite of all the past disagreements, and in spite of all the other bad things that have happened, are happening in the present, and may always happen in the future.

Again, if people want to come to have the opinion that my optimism is ignorant, then fine.

If my optimism makes me ignorant, no matter how academically, intelligently, and responsibly I attempt to approach it, then what does that make the fans that speak of the lives of mutants, and even real life minorities, as if life is too terrible to keep on living?

[Steel Inquisitor]

I suppose some could condemn me of being too ignorantly optimistic, and fine, they have the free will to have that view after all, and I also have nothing against fans who are persistent in believing that life in the Marvel Universe will be extremely crappy for all mutants in human societies no matter what. Some others could perhaps be cynical and pessimistic to the point that Krakoa won’t be around for too long since, this being fiction, any writer could just write that away without being obligated to fans to give a decent explanation.

Yup, this was never not a possibility. This is comics, everything is canon until it's not. Marvel could retcon Krakoa to being plant creatures next week.

That said, I have to wonder, what exactly makes some fans persistent and so quickly ready to believe that life on Earth will always be extremely crappy for all mutants no matter what, and no matter how much time passes? And, considering the reflections to real life, could they possibly think similarly of real life minorities too? Wouldn’t thinking like that for long enough drive someone crazy? That life on Earth is said to be so hopeless and so terrible because of all the bad people to the point that life isn’t worth living on it anymore? This isn’t meant to downplay the hardships minorities have in real life of course, but in regards in whether life is worth living or not, well, that’s another story, isn’t it?

This is why it's important not to get too emotionally invested because it'll be devastating once the foot eventually drops. X-men is a brand which is great for looking at minority perspectives through but it's a franchise to make money for Marvel, not an indy comic. Thats why it's necessary to keep one eye on the meta side behind the scenes, as they dictate what's going on in the books and it's not all about "the cause." There could be many reasons for writers doing things: editorial mandates (The X-line is notorious for this), they have x pages to tell a story in, they had to compromise with other writers or artists on a subject, they were phoning an issue in because they were exhausted from life and so on. X-men parallel struggles, which is badly needed, but they aren't real life. The things mutants go through aren't 1=1 with real minorities, never forget that. This occurs in various fiction which uses metaphors for various oppressed groups.

As for me, I recall series like Star Trek have taught me that it’s indeed possible for living beings of considerably different backgrounds, even living beings with special abilities, to work together as equals towards a greater good, in spite of all the past atrocities, in spite of all the past past disagreements, and in spite of all the other bad things that have happened, are happening in the present, and may always happen in the future.

Again, if people want to come to have the opinion that my optimism is ignorant, then fine.

If my optimism makes me ignorant, no matter how academically, intelligently, and responsibly I attempt to approach it, then what does that make the fans that speak of the lives of mutants, and even real life minorities, as if life is too terrible to keep on living?

That's why its good to not blur the lines to much with fiction. Stories can be useful in inspiring people, but they're still stories with all the limitations inherent to the media. Trek's optimism hasn't been without acknowledging systemic problems, they're not perfect - even in TOS Bones was making racist remarks to Spock.

[BroHomo]

@Electricmastro

Dude, Very nice post! I personally I don't find your optimism ignorant. Not at all Dude. Its commendable AF. Of course Im optistimist about the outlook for minorities in the real world and Im sure there could be a reasonable story that finds all the races/people in 616 living in harmony but idk if I'd want to read it. lol

I think Electricmastro means that he still hopes that somewhere down the line, people will come to be able to accept and embrace each other in spite or even because of their differences. I might not see that happening anytime soon, especially nowadays, but it's a good hope to have.

Thanks!

[Huntsman Spider]

I suppose some could condemn me of being too ignorantly optimistic, and fine, they have the free will to have that view after all, and I also have nothing against fans who are persistent in believing that life in the Marvel Universe will be extremely crappy for all mutants in human societies no matter what. Some others could perhaps be cynical and pessimistic to the point that Krakoa won’t be around for too long since, this being fiction, any writer could just write that away without being obligated to fans to give a decent explanation.

That said, I have to wonder, what exactly makes some fans persistent and so quickly ready to believe that life on Earth will always be extremely crappy for all mutants no matter what, and no matter how much time passes? And, considering the reflections to real life, could they possibly think similarly of real life minorities too? Wouldn’t thinking like that for long enough drive someone crazy? That life on Earth is said to be so hopeless and so terrible because of all the bad people to the point that life isn’t worth living on it anymore? This isn’t meant to downplay the hardships minorities have in real life of course, but in regards in whether life is worth living or not, well, that’s another story, isn’t it?

As for me, I recall series like Star Trek have taught me that it’s indeed possible for living beings of considerably different backgrounds, even living beings with special abilities, to work together as equals towards a greater good, in spite of all the past atrocities, in spite of all the past past disagreements, and in spite of all the other bad things that have happened, are happening in the present, and may always happen in the future.

Again, if people want to come to have the opinion that my optimism is ignorant, then fine.

If my optimism makes me ignorant, no matter how academically, intelligently, and responsibly I attempt to approach it, then what does that make the fans that speak of the lives of mutants, and even real life minorities, as if life is too terrible to keep on living?

Yup, this was never not a possibility. This is comics, everything is canon until it's not. Marvel could retcon Krakoa to being plant creatures next week.



This is why it's important not to get too emotionally invested because it'll be devastating once the foot eventually drops. X-men is a brand which is great for looking at minority perspectives through but it's a franchise to make money for Marvel, not an indy comic. Thats why it's necessary to keep one eye on the meta side behind the scenes, as they dictate what's going on in the books and it's not all about "the cause." There could be many reasons for writers doing things: editorial mandates (The X-line is notorious for this), they have x pages to tell a story in, they had to compromise with other writers or artists on a subject, they were phoning an issue in because they were exhausted from life and so on. X-men parallel struggles, which is badly needed, but they aren't real life. The things mutants go through aren't 1=1 with real minorities, never forget that. This occurs in various fiction which uses metaphors for various oppressed groups.



That's why its good to not blur the lines to much with fiction. Stories can be useful in inspiring people, but they're still stories with all the limitations inherent to the media. Trek's optimism hasn't been without acknowledging systemic problems, they're not perfect - even in TOS Bones was making racist remarks to Spock.

Good points, both of you, and speaking of Trek, DS9 did go further with showing the cracks in the Federation's idealistic surface, what with stuff like Section 31 and the Maquis. Come to think of it, there was a line in one episode that arguably summed up the ethos of Deep Space Nine perfectly: "It's easy to be a saint in paradise." To relate that to the X-Men, it does take a certain level of courage and strength to have any hope that things can or will be better in the long run despite how dire the circumstances may be or appear at the moment.

[Lucyinthesky]

Good points, both of you, and speaking of Trek, DS9 did go further with showing the cracks in the Federation's idealistic surface, what with stuff like Section 31 and the Maquis. Come to think of it, there was a line in one episode that arguably summed up the ethos of Deep Space Nine perfectly: "It's easy to be a saint in paradise." To relate that to the X-Men, it does take a certain level of courage and strength to have any hope that things can or will be better in the long run despite how dire the circumstances may be or appear at the moment.

Agreed and I think the X-men have keep this mentality they are just using different means to achieve this. Outside story I think Krakoa is a transition after all Hickman said he would put all the toys back at their box, he did the same with the Avengers and Fantastic Four, I am just enjoying the journey

[JB]

Agreed and I think the X-men have keep this mentality they are just using different means to achieve this. Outside story I think Krakoa is a transition after all Hickman said he would put all the toys back at their box, he did the same with the Avengers and Fantastic Four, I am just enjoying the journey

Very true. He also recently said that he and the other writers are having fun exploring different things right now but when he feels it is time, he will turn the ship in a big way and things will shift.

I'm hopeful that Krakoa will build itself up enough where mutants in general are given the opportunity to contribute to the world in new ways.

[Huntsman Spider]

Agreed and I think the X-men have keep this mentality they are just using different means to achieve this. Outside story I think Krakoa is a transition after all Hickman said he would put all the toys back at their box, he did the same with the Avengers and Fantastic Four, I am just enjoying the journey

Bear in mind that in the case of the Avengers, they were shown as not only fallible and flawed, but ultimately undermined by their own hubris, with the Fantastic Four --- specifically Reed Richards --- having to set things right after the Avengers failed so catastrophically despite (or maybe because of) the extremes they went to that the Multiverse completely fell apart on their watch. If past is prologue . . .

[Lucyinthesky]

Bear in mind that in the case of the Avengers, they were shown as not only fallible and flawed, but ultimately undermined by their own hubris, with the Fantastic Four --- specifically Reed Richards --- having to set things right after the Avengers failed so catastrophically despite (or maybe because of) the extremes they went to that the Multiverse completely fell apart on their watch. If past is prologue . . .

I know that´s why I think Krakoa is a transition step for a different status quo, I already can see Mr Sinister conspiring, something both Xavier and Magneto exptected,Shaw is going to get what he deserves from Emma, Apocalypse may be with them now but I think his idea of a mutant future and the X-men´s idea are quite different so a clash is waiting to happen, stillis good to see Apocalypse as an actual menace again despite being forgotten for such a long time. I am also excited to see more of Magik and Cyclops as captains, of Jean and Wolvie as part of X-force and of Magneto as ambassador, etc.

I see this Krakoa´s story as a rise - conflict - fall story but Hickman also usually leaves soemthing different in each franchise and he has put some tought into renovating the X-line to get it out of the decimation vicious circle that didn´t allow for much different stories with most of the characters dead or depowered, instead we will get at least new opportunities for more different stories and a renovated franchise, that´s my take on this era so far.