Times when humans were genuinely concerned over the well-being of mutants.

[Glio]

I'm sorry, by 'it's doesn't compute', I meant to say 'it doesn't make any sense'.
When you are presented as an hero in a comic book, they are some prerequisites. And one of them is a total lack of discrimination about the people you save and a keen sense of justice.
So, if the Avengers don't do about anything about mutant persecutions, I don't understand.

I started reading X-men comics when X-men were more presented as heroes than mutants. Along the years, there has been a shift.
Now, the X-men are more on the defensive and centered on mutant affairs. So we see less behaving as heroes. There is a doubt about their convictions and beliefs.

You are starting from a wrong premise and it's more or less "All lives matter" argument. There are certain groups that are more persecuted than others and therefore must have special protection. If you are a mutant, you not only have all the dangers that an average human has, you have many more.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Really? They aren't real?

No, Marvel mutants aren't real and we don't have super-powers in our world. They are analogues to real minorities, but they're not 1=1. I'm arguing about the things which minorities in our world don't have which mutants do in the Marvel universe. There is no person on this planet who can destroy a nuclear submarine like Magneto can.

And where is the Unity Squad now?

They weren't perfect but they tried. What's the equivalent team on the X-men side?

Like you just revealed to me, these are fictional characters. So my reasoning for in-universe decisions has to be based on what’s presented to me either on-page or in interviews. It isn't my fault that the X-men and Avengers and Fantastic Four are all in a shared universe, it was built that way.

In-universe stories are impacted by this, we can't ignore those reasons as byproducts of factors outside their control. That a huge indirect impact on how characters act in Marvel, and it effects every comics series. So why not acknowledge the flaws in how it's built rather than simply jumping to the worst case scenario?

Also, mutants don't care about humans? First off, they have no obligation to do so. Second, that's another thing that is directly contradicted by the books.

This is all over the place. You don't think it's good to care about other races other than your own? But mutants get rightly angry when they think humans do this or suspect they are? The X-men carved out their niche by caring about everyone, human and mutant - there was no line they wouldn't cross to care about and protect people. This needn't be multiple choice, that's a false dilemma mutants supremacists made up with their ideologies to divide humanity, which mutants are an off-shoot, to make it ease to hurt humans with their bigotry.

Psylocke isn't a human so I don't know why you put that there. That's a good panel from Jean, wish I saw more of that from the X-men these days. But this isn't the norm, not anymore for the X-men. The fact she had to explain to Xavier why this is important speaks badly of Logan. He can't seperate civilians from soldiers, which is alarming. If they did this more often we wouldn't be having this conversation.

This is a lost cause.

I'm only working with what Marvel gave me. It's going to take a lot more to convince me remorseless murderers deserve amnesty then hiding behind Krakoa. You should think more over what your arguing with if you have no compelling stance against what I'm saying.

Why are you acting like those events didn't have staggering legacies on the X-brand?

Legacies which are fading as we speak, this is a new era. Mutants haven't been stronger than they are now with Hickman. Every year Decimation becomes less and less relevant to the X-men.

Where did I say that?

You implied it.

Defending yourself isn’t going from 0 to 100. Mutants just got dealt by a mandatory vaccine, getting experimented and tortured in multiple O*N*E raids, literally forced into Sentinels to hunt down their mutant friends & family, and beaten to death by humans without any criminal justice. It’s objectively a dumb question for Susan to ask at this point.

Except Sue had nothing to do with that. You think the Fantastic Four haven't gone through horrible experiences as super-heroes? Krakoa is a whole new game changer for the X-men, they gave up being super-heroes to become a government themselves. Which, in a warped way, is a meta callback to how they got started as mutant police aided by the US government. That's what they originally were in Stan Lee and Kirby's run. Except now they are the government.

[Tycon]

No, Marvel mutants aren't real and we don't have super-powers in our world. They are analogues to real minorities, but they're not 1=1. I'm arguing about the things which minorities in our world don't have which mutants do in the Marvel universe. There is no person on this planet who can destroy a nuclear submarine like Magneto can.

Oh my god, dude, I was joking.

They weren't perfect but they tried. What's the equivalent team on the X-men side?

That burden shouldn’t fall in the Party that’s already oppressed. If someone is privileged and has the opportunity to reach out, they should use their platform to uplift the marginalized.

In-universe stories are impacted by this, we can't ignore those reasons as byproducts of factors outside their control. That a huge indirect impact on how characters act in Marvel, and it effects every comics series. So why not acknowledge the flaws in how it's built rather than simply jumping to the worst case scenario?

Because it’s a feature, not a bug. Otherwise it wouldn’t be a constant point of contention made in-universe between the two teams.

This is all over the place. You don't think it's good to care about other races other than your own? But mutants get rightly angry when they think humans do this or suspect they are? The X-men carved out their niche by caring about everyone, human and mutant - there was no line they wouldn't cross to care about and protect people. This needn't be multiple choice, that's a false dilemma mutants supremacists made up with their ideologies to divide humanity, which mutants are an off-shoot, to make it ease to hurt humans with their bigotry.

It’s adaption. If you are part of an already persecuted minority group and those who are sworn to protect and serve everybody forget about the community you’re in, would it not make logical sense to divert more focus towards the well-being that you aren’t getting elsewhere?

Psylocke isn't a human so I don't know why you put that there. That's a good panel from Jean, wish I saw more of that from the X-men these days. But this isn't the norm, not anymore for the X-men. The fact she had to explain to Xavier why this is important speaks badly of Xavier. He can't seperate civilians from soldiers, which is alarming. If they did this more often we wouldn't be having this conversation.

What??? How did you miss the panel directly below that where Laura is telling her team that they need to help save the world?

I'm only working with what Marvel gave me. It's going to take a lot more to convince me remorseless murderers deserve amnesty then hiding behind Krakoa. You should think more over what your arguing with if you have no compelling stance against what I'm saying.

Well, first off, there wasn’t even anything established in human institutions that accounted for the direct causation that mutant powers have on who you are as a person. As we’ve seen addressed in Hellions #1 with Empath and what we can only assume is the case for mutant vampires like Selene, Threnody, Emplate etc etc

Legacies which are fading as we speak, this is a new era. Mutants haven't been stronger than they are now with Hickman. Every year Decimation becomes less and less relevant to the X-men.

Yes. Because Decimation is now being directly addressed in ongoing series.

Except Sue had nothing to do with that. You think the Fantastic Four haven't gone through horrible experiences as super-heroes? Krakoa is a whole new game changer for the X-men, they gave up being super-heroes to become a government themselves. Which, in a warped way, is a meta callback to how they got started as mutant police aided by the US government. That's what they originally were in Stan Lee and Kirby's run. Except now they are the government.

Good god, remove the Fantastic Four’s trials and tribulations because of their boring adventures in paceout of his debate. This is about mutants and their response to what they’ve been going through. Sue has everything to do with that because she’s acting like she doesn’t understand why they’re doing what they are doing. It couldn’t be made more clearer why Cyclops responds to her with that. And again, he didn’t “blow up” at her, you’re really overreaching what was a simple shutdown. And their very next interaction, we see Scott doesn’t harbor any of these I’ll feelings that you keep saying he has.

[Zelena]

You are starting from a wrong premise and it's more or less "All lives matter" argument. There are certain groups that are more persecuted than others and therefore must have special protection. If you are a mutant, you not only have all the dangers that an average human has, you have many more.

They are more attacked, they need more protection. Of course. A full-time, strong bodyguard.
It says nothing about their rights that are equal to everyone else.

[Havok83]

People insists that Wanda has robbed the depowered mutants from an essential part of them, that they are dying to recover that part… And suddenly they are human?
Humans don't have this nostalgia of something that never was theirs.

Besides if the depowered mutants don't want to be mutants in their own right, whole again, what are they doing on Krakoa, where it is so despicable not having cool powers or unusual appareance that distinguish you from these horrible humans?

Technically they are human. One can call them depowered mutants, but both terms apply. Besides Krakoa seems like a cool place to be where family and old friends exist. In the case of Melody, her sister and resurrected brother (Jay) were there, as well as old friends. Im sure this is the case for others

They weren't perfect but they tried. What's the equivalent team on the X-men side?

I asked a question above that you may have missed. Exactly what did the Unity squad do for mutantkind? Where were they during IvX? How were they anything more than PR fluff for Captain America?

Psylocke isn't a human so I don't know why you put that there. That's a good panel from Jean, wish I saw more of that from the X-men these days. But this isn't the norm, not anymore for the X-men. The fact she had to explain to Xavier why this is important speaks badly of Logan. He can't seperate civilians from soldiers, which is alarming. If they did this more often we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Does it? Logan has never had a problem killing humans even against the X-men wishes going back to the DPS. Its the same energy we've seen him have throughout the years as he' killed people that could have been spared. He is cool with it, but the group as a whole or not and thats what Jean and Cyclops are reinforcing in that scan

[JB]

It's going to take a lot more to convince me remorseless murderers deserve amnesty then hiding behind Krakoa

In my most humble of opinions, said amnesty of said murderers has catapulted the stories to new heights. Incredibly interesting and delicious.

[Glio]

Villains are forgiven all the time, whether they are mutants or not. Reed Richards went on vacation through the multiverse so Doom could be a hero.

[Huntsman Spider]

Villains are forgiven all the time, whether they are mutants or not. Reed Richards went on vacation through the multiverse so Doom could be a hero.

And at least in Sabretooth's case, since he made it very clear that he felt no remorse for his crimes and wouldn't accept the judgment of even his fellow mutants, he was then punished by his fellow mutants. Who's to say mutants that cross the line in the future won't end up where he is?

Also, let's not forget that the first Avengers squad after the original was made up of Captain America and three ex-villains, one founding Avenger severely fell from grace, and another founding Avenger gets second chance after second chance despite (some of) his more catastrophic actions and decisions.

[Ferro]

also krakoa has allowed a truck-load of villains to simply not be villains anymore, and live their lives in peace and with usefull jobs, single handenly pratically reforming (talking about mutant rights terrorist groups and mutants,like the brotherhood, acolytes, mutant liberation front, etc, not psychos like in hellions) many more villains than shield or any other human organization has ever acomplished.
because most of those werent necessarly evil, but victims to an immensly stressfull and traumatic status as mutants.

[JB]

also krakoa has allowed a truck-load of villains to simply not be villains anymore, and live their lives in peace and with usefull jobs, single handenly pratically reforming (talking about mutant rights terrorist groups and mutants,like the brotherhood, acolytes, mutant liberation front, etc, not psychos like in hellions) many more villains than shield or any other human organization has ever acomplished.
because most of those werent necessarly evil, but victims to an immensly stressfull and traumatic status as mutants.

It's super cool to see the MLF hanging out in their dorm, and a usually forgettable character like Black Tom become a breakout star. All BECAUSE they're being given a chance to live in unity. Surely there will be (big?) bumps down the road but that's what I find so delicious.
Shiiiiiit, if the books ever come back we might see Wildside do something heroic in NM which could remove a serious danger for the humans of that town.

[Havok83]

It's super cool to see the MLF hanging out in their dorm, and a usually forgettable character like Black Tom become a breakout star. All BECAUSE they're being given a chance to live in unity. Surely there will be (big?) bumps down the road but that's what I find so delicious.

They've been given chances before. Lets not act as if these characters have not been given opportunities to live and work alongside the X-men. Black Tom specifically has tried to kill them and the kids multiple times and thats independent of any circumstances humans and the world have done to them

[spirit2011]

It's super cool to see the MLF hanging out in their dorm, and a usually forgettable character like Black Tom become a breakout star. All BECAUSE they're being given a chance to live in unity. Surely there will be (big?) bumps down the road but that's what I find so delicious.

Black Tom isn't a break out star

[JB]

They've been given chances before. Lets not act as if these characters have not been given opportunities to live and work alongside the X-men. Black Tom specifically has tried to kill them and the kids multiple times and thats independent of any circumstances humans and the world have done to them

No one's acting like anything, so ease up. They never had Krakoa before, something which most of the mutants believe is worth fighting for.

Black Tom isn't a break out star

Blasphemy.

[useridgoeshere]

The Unity squad spent more time bashing Mutants and turning them into human/Wanda apologists than they did actually doing anything. Considering it all started with Cap cowardly pushing poor helpless Avalanche to his death, it’s hardly a good example.

[Havok83]

The Unity squad spent more time bashing Mutants and turning them into human/Wanda apologists than they did actually doing anything. Considering it all started with Cap cowardly pushing poor helpless Avalanche to his death, it’s hardly a good example.

Thanks for answering. I was puzzled thinking of how they actually helped mutantkind