Would clark walking away from lois have been better than action comics #1004?

[manwhohaseverything]

We have had this discussion many times in the forum. But, we never had a poll. So, here it is. For the context of why this thread was made visit jon appreciation thread.

I ask, because if that had happened atleast clark would have been salvageable as a redeemable as a father and a husband. Clark's reaction to his wife was pathetic in my opinion.There is stark contrast between this guy and this guy below.


Shouldn't they face consequences for their actions? Furthermore, can the clark and lois be redeemed?

[Yoda]

Jesus Christ. No. Because you’re ignoring the context of the actual story. You ignore the set up of Jor El. Then you ignore the context of what actually happened to Jon.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Clark has his fair share of blame from that mess. Bendis made the whole family idiots for the sake of his story.

Jesus Christ. No. Because you’re ignoring the context of the actual story. You ignore the set up of Jor El. Then you ignore the context of what actually happened to Jon.

Not to be snarky, but a lot of people would argue that Bendis ignored the Jor-El set up. And then he ignored any context with what happened to Jon by having him come out of years of isolated torture unphased.

[Jackalope89]

Nope, because this;

Clark has his fair share of blame from that mess. Bendis made the whole family idiots for the sake of his story.

Clark (under Bendis) agreed to let Lois and Jon go with Jor-El. For, well, not really sure. The reason given was so bad back then, it has only gotten worse with time and reflecting on it. And we STILL haven't gotten an answer for Jor-El popping up out of nowhere again.

[Blue22]

Clark would be a huge hyprocrite for it since what happened to Jon was just as much his fault as it was Lois'. But I'd have still had some modicum of respect for him if he had been angry with her. The only (terrible) reason he agreed to let him go in the first place was on the condition that Lois went with him. And then suddenly Lois is okay with leaving Jon with the homocidal maniac and Clark was supposed to just be okay with it because Jon "doesn't need us"? Yes the **** he does! There is no hidden context or depth or whatever. It is what it is. Jor El was untrustworthy from the start and Lois abandoned her child with him. There's no other way to spin what that was. It was abandonment.

[Yoda]

Can someone please point me to the page where Jor El hurt Jon? I seem to have missed that one.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Can someone please point me to the page where Jor El hurt Jon? I seem to have missed that one.

I never saw Lex Luthor hurt Jon. Would it have been ok if Clark trusted him?

[Yoda]

I never saw Lex Luthor hurt Jon. Would it have been ok if he trusted him?

Ok. So I take it you can’t show me where Jor El harmed Jon? Cause it was the equivalent of an space car accident. So how were they wrong to trust him then?

[Lvenger]

Bendis never explained why the Kents were suddenly OK with Jor-El showing up out of nowhere and demanding Jon accompany him into space. The last time they saw him, Jor-El was responsible for organising mass terrorist attacks, chemical weapons being deployed in an African country, worldwide rioting and oil spills. Plus he murdered Metallo and Zor-El along with imprisoning Mr Mxyzptlk and Tim Drake. Yes he was under mind control but he was still suffering mentally from his trauma. Lois suffered more than Clark in this instance from Bendis' writing. She not only swayed Clark into allowing Jon to go with his grandfather but had Lois leave Jon with Jor-El without any doubts or fears. Everyone was written wrong in this scene and it ruined the family dynamics that were developed by Jurgens and Tomasi over their runs.

[Lvenger]

Ok. So I take it you can’t show me where Jor El harmed Jon? Cause it was the equivalent of an space car accident. So how were they wrong to trust him then?

Jor-El is responsible for Jon being stranded on Earth 3 and tortured for years in a volcano by Ultraman. If Jon hadn't gone with Jor-El he wouldn't have been sucked into the black hole and stuck on Earth 3 for years in a literal character assassination that took away everything fans liked about Jon in the first place.

[Blue22]

Can someone please point me to the page where Jor El hurt Jon? I seem to have missed that one.

Are we really doing this? You really think, with everything they knew about Jor-El before this incident and everything they find out about him after, trusting him alone with their eleven year old, so far in space that neither of them could do anything if/when he needed them, was anything but a terrible idea on Clark and Lois' part? It doesn't matter if he didn't hurt Jon, himself. Jon never should have been up there with him in the first place. He was essentially a stranger to all of them (a very unstable stranger at that) and all it took for them to be okay with their kid going off to God only knows where were some crocodile tears about not being good enough to sit at the big kids' table.

And it was all for nothing! There was nothing Jor-El could have taught or shown Jon that Clark wasn't capable of teaching or showing him. Especially since those two had already started going into space together in Tomasi's run.

[manwhohaseverything]

Jesus Christ. No. Because you’re ignoring the context of the actual story. You ignore the set up of Jor El. Then you ignore the context of what actually happened to Jon.

It's fine, if you think this is alright with you. But to me, no context is making this any better. This is pure and simply nonsensical. Atleast when goku was shitty parent he was called out in story. Here, its not even happening. These two jackasses that ruined their kids childhood gets to live happy life. What kind of tragedy is this? Furthermore, jor el in Bendis's run itself is a nothing but lieing, conspirator that had a hand in even genocides and destruction of his own people. Going back jurgens run would only double that.

This what a real father would have done. Clark atleast could have been redeemable.
"i rather die than wait"

Clark has his fair share of blame from that mess. Bendis made the whole family idiots for the sake of his story.

While the whole family might be idiots. They weren't irredeemable they are now. Clark had lois to protect jon and gave her tech.Clark could easily be redeemed with him leaving lois and finding anyone to help in searching , namely hal who was asking about jon specifically. And green lanterns were in touch with jon.lois might be irredeemable, clark wasn't. He would have been just a flawed parent, not an irredeemable parent.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Ok. So I take it you can’t show me where Jor El harmed Jon? Cause it was the equivalent of an space car accident. So how were they wrong to trust him then?

Because the last time we saw him it he tried to destroy humanity. And nothing happened between that and MOS that would transition to the choices characters made in MOS. And under Bendis it turned out he was even more dangerous and untrustworthy. Turns out Krypton being destroyed was his fault. Isn’t that reassuring?
Like I said, it makes just as much sense for Clark and Lois to trust Oz as it would have been for them to trust Brainiac or Luthor.

[Yoda]

Jor-El is responsible for Jon being stranded on Earth 3 and tortured for years in a volcano by Ultraman. If Jon hadn't gone with Jor-El he wouldn't have been sucked into the black hole and stuck on Earth 3 for years in a literal character assassination that took away everything fans liked about Jon in the first place.

But that was an accident. He didn’t dump him in there on purpose. There was no intent to harm him. It’s no different than getting in a car accident. There is nothing about it that undercuts the trust. He didn’t betray them. He didn’t hurt Jon doing some evil or dangerous. If Clark and Lois were with him the outcome would have been exactly the same

This is the disconnect. Lois and Clark’s trust wasn’t betrayed by Jor El. So all the Mr. Oz stuff is meaningless.

[Yoda]

Because the last time we saw him it he tried to destroy humanity. And nothing happened between that and MOS that would transition to the choices characters made in MOS. And under Bendis it turned out he was even more dangerous and untrustworthy under Bendis. Turns out Krypton being destroyed was his fault. Isn’t that reassuring?
Like I said, it makes just as much sense for Clark and Lois to trust Oz as it would have been for them to trust Brainiac or Luthor.

He didn’t do anything to harm Jon. It’s obviously not the same set up at Mr. Oz left. We know that, it’s implied. So how did he betray their trust? How did his being Mr. Oz factor into it at all.