Ughh...Ed Boon pushing for an Injustice movie

[Johnny Thunders!]

I don't know anything about the game except for the ads way back when, and those were great.

I think the comic is actually pretty well written, at least the first 12 issues. It is definitely a twilight zone/horror story. If Warners/DC had a platform as big as Disney Plus, they could crank out a good Elseworlds series. Injustice would be an awesome 24 episode two season series. (I love the Green Arrow/Black Canary story in Injustice. That and the man of yesterday story with the kid who idolizes the old Superman, both those stories are great. WW is pathetic all the way so far, but the Flash is so tragic.)

[SiegePerilous02]

How was Synder's Superman Bad I'm still waiting for an Answer? Guy saved Metropolis and the World from Zod, was it Perfect No but I'm not looking for perfect. BvS shows him still trying to do good even though outside forces are conspiring against him. All people have to go on for this Injustice narrative is the paranoid Timestream induced dream by a guy suffering obvious PTSD. Meanwhile Superman never actually strikes Batman during their tussle while Batman beats the **** out of him when he's got the upper hand. Do people ever remark on this? No. He then literally Sacrifices himself at the end of the movie to end the treat. Funny how Superman blames Batman for why he's like he is in the Knightmare yet no one ever asked "****! What did Batman do to Lois?" Batman is Always, always, ALWAYS given the benefit of the doubt. I believe this is because he's rich and we've been conditioned by the Media and Advertising to treat the Rich as if they were Special and can do no wrong.

It depends of who you're asking. Because Batman's received a lot of shallow criticisms because he's rich and white, with no deeper examinations beyond that. With how both characters are, it makes more sense for them to have more in common than differences.

Both Injustice and Snyder suck. Superman being treated as a sacrificial lamb who is placed on a pedestal with Christ imagery doesn't make him a nuanced or engaging take on the character. People can recognize that he's not Injustice level bad person and still find the whole experience miserable and/or boring to sit through.

[Agent Z]

I'd say Snyder's Superman has been the subject of shallow criticisms more often than not.

[stargazer01]

I agree with Siege, my problem with Snyder's Superman is not his ideas and themes he wanted to explore, but the execution of some of them. I think Man of Steel is quite good and enjoyable for me, but it could have been even better and a masterpiece if Snyder had made some small changes. He says he takes Superman seriously, but I think superheroes also need to be exciting and fun. And Superman above all really should be inspiring and a blast with all those powers.

Aquaman wasn't all perfect, imo. I think the script could have been much better, but the action and the characters and the visuals were so strong, I couldn't help but love it. It also has more heart than anything Snyder did with Superman. At least for me. And Shazam also had more heartfelt drama with the story of his mom. Snyder got his powers and most of the visuals very well, I love how Cavill Superman flies, etc, but his character development is so mixed for me. So when fans say that Snyder did it so well, I'm just like... sure.. I'm happy for you I guess. :/

[SiegePerilous02]

How was Snyder placing him on a pedestal? if anything, people seem to hate that he did the opposite for Superman. If we're talking about shallow criticisms, I'd say Snyder's take has been subject to that as well.

By making him Jesus, and putting him at a distance without making him engaging as a character. He;s basically there to make Batman have an epiphany and be a good person again and get WW out of hiding, but that makes him a prop for someone else.

And yes, before you say it I know the INTENT was for him to not be Jesus, but I think the film is confused on how it's attempting to present that message and isn't getting the end result.

[stargazer01]

I'd say Snyder's Superman has been the subject of shallow criticisms more often than not.

some of them, yes. too much generalization. but some criticisms feel genuine and have a base. At least mine do.

[manwhohaseverything]

It depends of who you're asking. Because Batman's received a lot of shallow criticisms because he's rich and white, with no deeper examinations beyond that. With how both characters are, it makes more sense for them to have more in common than differences.

Both Injustice and Snyder suck. Superman being treated as a sacrificial lamb who is placed on a pedestal with Christ imagery doesn't make him a nuanced or engaging take on the character. People can recognize that he's not Injustice level bad person and still find the whole experience miserable and/or boring to sit through.

Yet, people sit through or read through something where superman self appoints himself as an example for humanity. Which itself means messianic figure. Where he gives commandments to people like "thou shall not kill", "thou shall not steal","thou shall hope and thou shall dream" . I don't understand, If a person cannot use religious imagery to inverse it. Then what's the point. I didn't see anyone complaining when donner basically thrusted these in his movies with hammer. Snyder atleast tries to subvert it. People still say snyder made superman, space jesus. Nope! Superman was already space jesus before snyder ever made the movies.

[Agent Z]

By making him Jesus,

No, he had other people treat Clark like Jesus (something Clark is clearly not comfortable with). We see this throughout the movie

and putting him at a distance without making him engaging as a character.

The only times this was done was in the recap of the Metropolis battle and the brief montage of his rescues which were both exploring how people saw Clark. Every other time Clark is shown in the movie has him expressing his views, anxieties, fears, hopes and wants.

Hell, with how many people in this thread can't differentiate between a guy who doesn't smile all the time and a murderous authoritarian, it seems like the real issue with Snyder is that he made Clark too imperfect (not that I agree with that either but that seems to be the consensus around here).

[stargazer01]

Yet, people sit through or read through something where superman self appoints himself as an example for humanity. Which itself means messianic figure. Where he gives commandments to people like "thou shall not kill", "thou shall not steal","thou shall hope and thou shall dream" . I don't understand, If a person cannot use religious imagery to inverse it. Then what's the point. I didn't see anyone complaining when donner basically thrusted these in his movies with hammer. Snyder atleast tries to subvert it. People still say snyder made superman, space jesus. Nope! Superman was already space jesus before snyder ever made the movies.

that's true, Superman has been linked with Jesus since the Donner movie. At least that movie also had a great balance of fun and romance.

Even Smallville and Superman Returns had Jesus allegories. I don't mind it, I kind of like it, but it should just be on the surface and in small amounts.

[manwhohaseverything]

I have a question. Why can't a shy, introverted clark kent or superman exist? Does Superman need to be this extrovert that's full of confidence? What if that timid, terrified, wierd clark kent persona or act is the actual personality of superman, when he is being actual superman?

[SiegePerilous02]

No, he had other people treat Clark like Jesus (something Clark is clearly not comfortable with). We see this throughout the movie

We also see a lot of crucifixion imagery throughout both films, plus Clark sitting in front of that glass window of Jesus in MOS. These are not subtle things. And a f***ing Kryptonite Spear of Longinus

So yeah people are projecting Jesus stuff onto him and he denies it, but the imagery in the film (plus the death and resurrection) all come together to say "but he's still totally Jesus).

The only times this was done was in the recap of the Metropolis battle and the brief montage of his rescues which were both exploring how people saw Clark. Every other time Clark is shown in the movie has him expressing his views, anxieties, fears, hopes and wants.

The problem is, that's mostly all he does. It's worse in the theatrical cut, but there's a reason why Wonder Woman is the most acclaimed hero of the three in that movie: she doesn't spend 2 hours bitching and moaning like the other two and just shows up to get **** done with her awesome soundtrack.

Evidently, people don't want a Superman who is too doubtful of himself or a murderous Batman. The backtracking speaks for itself.

Hell, with how many people in this thread can't differentiate between a guy who doesn't smile all the time and a murderous authoritarian, it seems like the real issue with Snyder is that he made Clark too imperfect (not that I agree with that either but that seems to be the consensus around here).

I think people can dislike both. We KNOW the context of Snyder's aborted arc and how it differentiates from Injustice, but it's still broadly cut from the same cloth and not desirable.

It's possible to accept the context of what the movies were trying to do and still think they weren't nearly as smart as they were trying to be, or that the execution or ideas are flawed.

[Agent Z]

We also see a lot of crucifixion imagery throughout both films, plus Clark sitting in front of that glass window of Jesus in MOS. These are not subtle things. And a f***ing Kryptonite Spear of Longinus

So yeah people are projecting Jesus stuff onto him and he denies it, but the imagery in the film (plus the death and resurrection) all come together to say "but he's still totally Jesus).




The problem is, that's mostly all he does. It's worse in the theatrical cut, but there's a reason why Wonder Woman is the most acclaimed hero of the three in that movie: she doesn't spend 2 hours bitching and moaning like the other two and just shows up to get **** done with her awesome soundtrack.

Evidently, people don't want a Superman who is too doubtful of himself or a murderous Batman. The backtracking speaks for itself.



I think people can dislike both. We KNOW the context of Snyder's aborted arc and how it differentiates from Injustice, but it's still broadly cut from the same cloth and not desirable.

It's possible to accept the context of what the movies were trying to do and still think they weren't nearly as smart as they were trying to be, or that the execution or ideas are flawed.

You know I feel like if I continue this much longer I'm going to say something both of us regret as has been the case in a lot of conversations about Snyder's Superman. I'll just say I respect your opinions but I disagree strongly and leave it at that.

[The_Lurk]

Oh noes, Snyder put Superman comic imagery in the Superman movies....





Can't you just reduce the hatemongering towards the stuff that went wrong instead of ... everything and then some?

[superduperman]

I'm just sick of the whole "Superman but evil" stories. Or stories where he kills people. We get it, you don't know what else to do with him. They made a video game where DC heroes fight each other and they needed an excuse for why they were fighting each other. That's fine. It doesn't need it's own movie. I mean, there are, what, three video games now of DC heroes fighting each other? This. DC Online. and Infinite Crisis. It's not a particularly original idea. Taylor got stuck giving motivations to characters whose personalities he didn't set up to begin with. He was working backward from someone else's script. DC Online's been around for over a decade now so it's not like we needed another fighting game. Let the franchise die already.

[DochaDocha]

Yeah, games of heroes fighting heroes is nothing new. Capcom was doing it with their Marvel license nearly 20 years prior, and Nintendo was doing it with their IPs 15 years ahead. Neither Capcom's Vs. series or Smash had to give convoluted reasons why they're fighting, or why it makes sense Cammy can inflict damage to Juggernaut. I guess NRS' trademark is to make story-driven fighting games, but once you start with a flawed premise your story already is going to have issues.