Ughh...Ed Boon pushing for an Injustice movie

[Celgress]

Its just the way DC views Superman. They'll never do it to him unless they make sure to qualify it as an alternate reality or something, but they view Superman as a guy who needs his bubble if he were to lose it, he'd lose it. Only way that mindset goes away is when creative minds within DC largely change with the passage of time. And even then who knows if the next generation just doesn't subscribe to it as well.

That said while I accept that, I really don't need a major motion pictured focusing on it.

A valid point. The situation reminds of Goku Black in Dragon Ball Super. When GB was introduced fans were "This can't be a future version of Goku, can it!? Goku (who is heavily inspired by Superman) would never turn evil, doing so goes against his core values!" It turned out Goku Black wasn't Goku rather he was a twisted god who hijacked Goku's body for nefarious purposes. GB was a dark mirror cosplay of Goku. Injustice Superman, on the other hand, was Superman after "one bad day", which never sat well with me.

[SiegePerilous02]

They could always just change around Wonder Woman and make her one of the good guys still if they'd be worried about her image (though it sucks that it likely would never occur to them to think twice pre-Gadot).

I wouldn't look to her for protection if this would ever happen. Never underestimate how stupid Hollywood can get

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

They could always just change around Wonder Woman and make her one of the good guys still if they'd be worried about her image (though it sucks that it likely would never occur to them to think twice pre-Gadot).

I wouldn't look to her for protection if this would ever happen. Never underestimate how stupid Hollywood can get

Its just the way DC views Superman. They'll never do it to him unless they make sure to qualify it as an alternate reality or something, but they view Superman as a guy who needs his bubble if he were to lose it, he'd lose it. Only way that mindset goes away is when creative minds within DC largely change with the passage of time. And even then who knows if the next generation just doesn't subscribe to it as well.

That said while I accept that, I really don't need a major motion pictured focusing on it.

To be fair it’s not exclusive to Superman, they do alternate reality stories where just about any hero is evil. The recent tv Crisis crossover had an evil Bruce Wayne who reached his breaking point and snapped. Meanwhile it had a Kingdom Come Superman who lost Lois and most of his other loved ones, but was still as heroic as ever, didn’t even become a recluse like the comic KC. We’ve also had Savitar Barry, nazi Oliver Queen, evil Aquaman and WW in Flashpoint, Magnus and the Metal men were evil in gods and monsters. Jim Gordon was Jack the Ripper in Gaslight, and then of course there’s earth 3. The multiverse is a big part of Dc, these kinds of stories come with the territory. So while Superman gets it harder than most. I don’t take it personally. Hell the reason he gets it hardest is because he’s the biggest bestest hero ever. If anything it’s a really really twisted compliment.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Not saying I want an injustice movie, I’m kinda just playing devil’s advocate.

[DochaDocha]

So while Superman gets it harder than most. I don’t take it personally. Hell the reason he gets it hardest is because he’s the biggest bestest hero ever. If anything it’s a really really twisted compliment.

I'd argue, though, that even if they do the evil doppelganger story for other heroes, it's still disproportionately too high for Superman, both in volume of stories and profile of each story, and IMO it's driven a lot by creators who are not up to the task of making Superman honorable, powerful, and interesting. I believe a lot of creators think to make Superman an interesting subject, you either have to depower him or make him edgy or conflicted. Many of us fans miss out on the best possible Superman experience.

[Robanker]

I've come to the point in my life where if someone tells me they love Injustice, it's shorthand for "I'm not a Superman fan" and I just want this **** to go away. Ugh.

Obviously I'm exaggerating, but that universe went beyond "just an elseworlds" and has since become offensive to the character. He's a monster in that thing and DC continues to run to it. I really shudder to think about the flood of talent we're going to get in five years who grew up on the Snyder and Injustice Supermen. It's hard not to worry on it when Superman's presentation in most outside media (and even in comics) is either some guy one second away from enslaving us all or a relic of yesteryear who needs to die for our sins so Batdaddy can take center stage from atop his ivory tower as a representative of poor, disenfranchised people.

All Injustice will do is prove that Warner Brothers actually doesn't have any belief in DC outside of Batman and that Superman is a dead concept. Hell, they basically brought in Supergirl to do his job at the end of the second game (much like his main counterpart had to in the first game) just because they really, really don't know what to do anymore. It's just such a goddamn mess.

[stargazer01]

If WB made Wonder Woman (who shares many values with Superman) and freakin Aquaman, and to a lesser degree Shazam and Flash (on TV)a big success, I don't see how they can't make Superman done right on film or TV... Are they blind, dumb, or something? Patty J. got inspiration for her WW film with the original Superman movie. James Wan also gave us an Aquaman who was a good guy. Sure a bit confused at first, but that's part of the genre.

I can't see WB making an evil Superman after seeing how general audiences rejected BvS. It'd be complete character assassination. That film didn't just hurt Superman's image, it also did damage to Batman. I know many Batman fans who hate that movie because their Batman does not kill..

[Gaius]

They could always just change around Wonder Woman and make her one of the good guys still if they'd be worried about her image (though it sucks that it likely would never occur to them to think twice pre-Gadot).

I wouldn't look to her for protection if this would ever happen. Never underestimate how stupid Hollywood can get

I've seen the idea tossed around before but a better use of Wonder Woman in Injustice would have been using her as the leader of a third faction in the game who resists Superman and but is also willing to call out Batman on his bullshit.

[Frontier]

The comics. They sell really well and they sell well over time. Hell I just checked ComiXology and they’re still selling well. And why wouldn’t they? It’s God knows how many issues of C-Listers getting slaughtered while Batgod rallies the troops and SuperHitler and WW cripple protesters. If you’re someone who likes “Marvel and Batman” it’s the perfect story for you because the only one who looks good is Batman. Batman in Injustice is merely a moron. Superman is both a moron AND mustache twirling evil. The whole story is tailor made to appeal to casuals.

Batman takes his licks too. I was surprised, reading the Injustice 2 comic, how much Batman gets beat up or knocked down a beg in that book.

Taylor only gives extreme plot armor to Harley.

DCAU did exactly that. Superman was pretty weak in STAS, and everyone knows that. Then, in Batman Beyond, he was surprisingly really strong. They completely amped his strength, speed, and durability, most impressively lifting an ocean liner, catching a collapsing skyscraper, and casually outpacing the Batmobile that peaked at mach 2 velocity. It's almost as though the writers want you to notice how much more powerful Superman was compared to the original series. The catch, of course, was that they revealed at the end of the first half of the two-parter that Superman was actually the bad guy. Time passes and the Justice League cartoon comes out, and Superman goes back to his pathetic STAS baseline. We don't get a competently-powered Superman until after the fans on the internet voice their complaints.

I get that basic writing usually calls for our heroes not to seem so unstoppable, but it makes you wonder what parts of the character you're willing to tradeoff when aspects of it are being poorly done.

Was he?

... but then at the end of Injustice, the main Superman said he will turn out like Injustice Superman if the same thing happen to him. That's where I draw the line.

I can easily write that off as just typical Superheroes musing about what potentially could have happened to them after seeing an AU version go bad. It doesn't mean it's true.

I've come to the point in my life where if someone tells me they love Injustice, it's shorthand for "I'm not a Superman fan" and I just want this **** to go away. Ugh.

I like elements of Injustice.

[Lokimaru]

To be fair it’s not exclusive to Superman, they do alternate reality stories where just about any hero is evil. The recent tv Crisis crossover had an evil Bruce Wayne who reached his breaking point and snapped. Meanwhile it had a Kingdom Come Superman who lost Lois and most of his other loved ones, but was still as heroic as ever, didn’t even become a recluse like the comic KC. We’ve also had Savitar Barry, nazi Oliver Queen, evil Aquaman and WW in Flashpoint, Magnus and the Metal men were evil in gods and monsters. Jim Gordon was Jack the Ripper in Gaslight, and then of course there’s earth 3. The multiverse is a big part of Dc, these kinds of stories come with the territory. So while Superman gets it harder than most. I don’t take it personally. Hell the reason he gets it hardest is because he’s the biggest bestest hero ever. If anything it’s a really really twisted compliment.

Oh I'm Sorry was Magog in that Story, You now the guy who killed the Joker and People said good, causing Superman to retire? Context my friend.

[Lokimaru]

I've come to the point in my life where if someone tells me they love Injustice, it's shorthand for "I'm not a Superman fan" and I just want this **** to go away. Ugh.

Obviously I'm exaggerating, but that universe went beyond "just an elseworlds" and has since become offensive to the character. He's a monster in that thing and DC continues to run to it. I really shudder to think about the flood of talent we're going to get in five years who grew up on the Snyder and Injustice Supermen. It's hard not to worry on it when Superman's presentation in most outside media (and even in comics) is either some guy one second away from enslaving us all or a relic of yesteryear who needs to die for our sins so Batdaddy can take center stage from atop his ivory tower as a representative of poor, disenfranchised people.

All Injustice will do is prove that Warner Brothers actually doesn't have any belief in DC outside of Batman and that Superman is a dead concept. Hell, they basically brought in Supergirl to do his job at the end of the second game (much like his main counterpart had to in the first game) just because they really, really don't know what to do anymore. It's just such a goddamn mess.

How was Synder's Superman Bad I'm still waiting for an Answer? Guy saved Metropolis and the World from Zod, was it Perfect No but I'm not looking for perfect. BvS shows him still trying to do good even though outside forces are conspiring against him. All people have to go on for this Injustice narrative is the paranoid Timestream induced dream by a guy suffering obvious PTSD. Meanwhile Superman never actually strikes Batman during their tussle while Batman beats the **** out of him when he's got the upper hand. Do people ever remark on this? No. He then literally Sacrifices himself at the end of the movie to end the treat. Funny how Superman blames Batman for why he's like he is in the Knightmare yet no one ever asked "****! What did Batman do to Lois?" Batman is Always, always, ALWAYS given the benefit of the doubt. I believe this is because he's rich and we've been conditioned by the Media and Advertising to treat the Rich as if they were Special and can do no wrong.

[Frontier]

How was Synder's Superman Bad I'm still waiting for an Answer? Guy saved Metropolis and the World from Zod, was it Perfect No but I'm not looking for perfect. BvS shows him still trying to do good even though outside forces are conspiring against him. All people have to go on for this Injustice narrative is the paranoid Timestream induced dream by a guy suffering obvious PTSD. Meanwhile Superman never actually strikes Batman during their tussle while Batman beats the **** out of him when he's got the upper hand. Do people ever remark on this? No. He then literally Sacrifices himself at the end of the movie to end the treat. Funny how Superman blames Batman for why he's like he is in the Knightmare yet no one ever asked "****! What did Batman do to Lois?" Batman is Always, always, ALWAYS given the benefit of the doubt. I believe this is because he's rich and we've been conditioned by the Media and Advertising to treat the Rich as if they were Special and can do no wrong.

A Batman who plans to basically hunt down and kill someone like they're an animal, even when he knows they're sentient, is no Batman at all. So I'm not giving Snyder's Batman a pass, but his imagery with Superman speaks for itself in my opinion.

[Robanker]

I like elements of Injustice.

I was exaggerating, but in all seriousness every good scene I've seen from it is always outweighed by at least two I can't stand. Honestly, having been exposed to as much of his work as I have, I'm starting to realize I don't much care for Tom Taylor at DC. He can deliver some great characterization at times, but I often find myself really thrown by the direction his stories take and there are some moments that are very, very strange (Lex asking if Batman was alive so he can declare himself the world's most intelligent man. That ain't Lex on so many levels).

[DochaDocha]

Was he?

What I said earlier was kind of vague, but there are a few things I think aren't debatable:

1) STAS Superman is weaker than Byrne's Superman, and one of the standout features of Byrne's Superman was that they toned him down a lot from Pre-Crisis Superman
2) I believe it was Alan Burnett, and probably a few others, but a producer of STAS pretty directly mentioned making Superman weaker was by design
3) If you compared Superman's feats in "The Call" vs STAS, or season one of Justice League, his feats in "The Call" are more physically impressive
4) The Justice League folks said they made their Superman about as powerful they made him in STAS
5) They amped Superman for season two of Justice League

IMO, the power level of "The Call" and season two and beyond of Justice League are pretty acceptable for their stories and needs. I also agree that season one of Justice League was about as powerful (weak) as in STAS. And my opinion was that when they made "The Call," they wanted a more powerful Superman so that when it came time for physical confrontation, it was going to seem more daunting. The weaker state in STAS was not going to cut it.

EDIT: Whether or not someone likes STAS and how they approached Superman is obviously subjective, but what I find nearly objective is that STAS Supes' baseline power level is certainly lower than contemporary comics.

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't mind a weaker superman. As long as the his movements and fights are dynamic. His fights need great hand to hand and choreography.he needs to look competent. Goldenage superman is supposed to be weak. Look at him, he jumps tall buildings, run up it, clings on it, does arial maneuvers like dives and flips, he runs on electric cables,his kicks and sweeps opponets and uses various submissions... Etc.