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  1. #91
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Of course it's fine, as is her not doing so. I just don't get the appeal of costumes based on gendered thinking. I don't see anyone clamoring for male heroes in skirts
    Because DC doesn't have a crossdressing male hero that I know of. Men don't just wear skirts in our culture unless they're part of a more particular subculture - drag, lgbtq, etc. Which honestly there should be heroes from those groups. But I don't know of any, so therefore don't want any of the heroes not from that scene/background to suddenly start crossdressing, it'd just feel like something that comes out of nowhere. It's fine if it's not something appealing for you, but I think it's wrong of you to suggest that it shouldn't be appealing to us or that we're rooted in some kind of antiquated "gendered thinking" for wanting to see it - frankly, it just feels like you're skirting around wanting to call us sexist for preferring this one fashion choice for one hero.

  2. #92
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, fashion is fashion, so...isn't that what it comes down to at the end of the day?

    If we ever got a live action Marvel Hercules, I'd expect him to wear a skirt.
    Technically those are togas? I mean he's Greek. Although I think he often wore loincloths or furry mankinis back in the old films...
    Or does DC Hercules in particular wear a skirt?

    All this talk of male heroes in skirts makes me wonder why the hell there's not a superhero Scotsman (yes I know kilts aren't considered skirts, I respect Scottish culture and traditions as much as any other - but my mind still wanders there).

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, fashion is fashion, so...isn't that what it comes down to at the end of the day?

    If we ever got a live action Marvel Hercules, I'd expect him to wear a skirt.
    Tbh, a lot of fashion doesn't make sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Because DC doesn't have a crossdressing male hero that I know of. Men don't just wear skirts in our culture unless they're part of a more particular subculture - drag, lgbtq, etc. Which honestly there should be heroes from those groups. But I don't know of any, so therefore don't want any of the heroes not from that scene/background to suddenly start crossdressing, it'd just feel like something that comes out of nowhere. It's fine if it's not something appealing for you, but I think it's wrong of you to suggest that it shouldn't be appealing to us or that we're rooted in some kind of antiquated "gendered thinking" for wanting to see it - frankly, it just feels like you're skirting around wanting to call us sexist for preferring this one fashion choice for one hero.
    I'm not trying to call anyone sexist. It's fine if you like the skirt. I just don't think it's bad if she doesn't wear it. I don't like several of the changes DCEU made but this doesn't bother me.

    And I just used men wearing skirts to point out there is a gender imbalance there, because men wearing skirts is viewed as "crossdressing", when women wearing pants isn't. These characters were drawn like this because they came from a more sexist era, so not seeing it like that doesn't bother me

  4. #94
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Oh wait, I thought of a crossdressing superhero! SheZow! Admittedly not DC, but I found it an entertaining cartoon (although I only saw a handful of episodes at the time - I think my habit for sleeping in made me miss it). I'd refuse to watch a SheZow adaptation that ditches the skirt.

  5. #95
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I'm not trying to call anyone sexist. It's fine if you like the skirt. I just don't think it's bad if she doesn't wear it. I don't like several of the changes DCEU made but this doesn't bother me.
    But no one said it's bad if she doesn't wear it? We were just expressing our personal preferences. That's the thing about fashion, it's very subjective. It doesn't bother you, but that doesn't mean we can't have a preference for something else. I mean, some fans still want Superman and Batman to wear trunks (aka the underwear outside their pants).

    And I just used men wearing skirts to point out there is a gender imbalance there, because men wearing skirts is viewed as "crossdressing", when women wearing pants isn't. These characters were drawn like this because they came from a more sexist era, so not seeing it like that doesn't bother me
    And do women wearing skirts now mean we're still in a sexist era (we are, but not because some women still wear skirts - I'd point to wage imbalances, rape culture, lack of females in board rooms, etc before talking skirts on that front)? Like should we go throwing pants at women wearing skirts and saying they're helping continue sexism? I don't get it.

    And yes, men wearing skirts is considered crossdressing. But that is our culture that we live in. Cultures change, over time, but today this is our culture and one can't just snap their fingers and change the culture overnight - but it's improving. Wearing a skirt may be crossdressing for a man, but crossdressing at least is becoming more and more acceptable. I mean, it used to be a crime for a man to crossdress - a crossdresser still might get odd looks or face discrimination sadly, but he won't be arrested. Time moves forward. But no matter how much time marches on some of us will always have a fondness or preference for Supergirl in a skirt, and I have to ask, is that wrong? Because I don't see what we're debating about if it's okay to like one version of a costume over others for one particular character just because the costume we prefer includes a skirt. I mean, I'm not petitioning WB or boycotting the film because she's wearing pants.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    But no one said it's bad if she doesn't wear it? We were just expressing our personal preferences. That's the thing about fashion, it's very subjective. It doesn't bother you, but that doesn't mean we can't have a preference for something else. I mean, some fans still want Superman and Batman to wear trunks (aka the underwear outside their pants).



    And do women wearing skirts now mean we're still in a sexist era (we are, but not because some women still wear skirts - I'd point to wage imbalances, rape culture, lack of females in board rooms, etc before talking skirts on that front)? Like should we go throwing pants at women wearing skirts and saying they're helping continue sexism? I don't get it.

    And yes, men wearing skirts is considered crossdressing. But that is our culture that we live in. Cultures change, over time, but today this is our culture and one can't just snap their fingers and change the culture overnight - but it's improving. Wearing a skirt may be crossdressing for a man, but crossdressing at least is becoming more and more acceptable. I mean, it used to be a crime for a man to crossdress - a crossdresser still might get odd looks or face discrimination sadly, but he won't be arrested. Time moves forward. But no matter how much time marches on some of us will always have a fondness or preference for Supergirl in a skirt, and I have to ask, is that wrong? Because I don't see what we're debating about if it's okay to like one version of a costume over others for one particular character just because the costume we prefer includes a skirt. I mean, I'm not petitioning WB or boycotting the film because she's wearing pants.
    It's true we do still live in a sexist era. But we can deal with all levels of sexism. Dealing with a minor issue doesn't preclude dealing with a major one.

    I guess we'll agree to disagree on the matter. I wouldn't want derail the thread. I've just heard a lot of complaints anytime a female hero doesn't live up to some ideal standard.

  7. #97
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    It's true we do still live in a sexist era. But we can deal with all levels of sexism. Dealing with a minor issue doesn't preclude dealing with a major one.
    But that's just the thing - I don't believe me having a preference for Supergirl wearing a skirt is a sexist issue, minor or major. It's just an innocent "I like this costume better" opinion.

    I guess we'll agree to disagree on the matter. I wouldn't want derail the thread. I've just heard a lot of complaints anytime a female hero doesn't live up to some ideal standard.
    But I don't think we are disagreeing - literally no one here has made a complaint because she's not living up to some ideal standard. We've just expressed our own personal costume preference largely informed by her other costumes. It isn't a sexist/anti-feminist complaint, never was.

    Edit: But you're right, we are derailing this thread so I'm not going to continue it - also because text doesn't convey emotions just a little fyi that I'm not upset or anything, this has just been kind of a half-interested off hand discussion to kill time on my end.
    Last edited by Vakanai; 06-20-2021 at 09:39 PM.

  8. #98
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    Ok. To be clear, I didn't mean to say you were being sexist or anti-feminist. It's perfectly fine if that's how you prefer her to look

  9. #99
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Of course it's fine, as is her not doing so. I just don't get the appeal of costumes based on gendered thinking. I don't see anyone clamoring for male heroes in skirts


    I'm sure he was a hero to those people on the Enterprise.

  10. #100
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    I remember that, but they dropped it. I can't say it looked great, but they could've tried something else. Yet Troi still had to wear her "outfit".

  11. #101
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Are we really debating Supergirl’s right to wear pants now? A fictional character?

  12. #102
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Has anyone seen Mary Marvel's new movie costume ?

  13. #103
    Astonishing Member Captain Craig's Avatar
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    Mary Marvel looks very spot on. Not even remotely sexualized, not in the way "Daddy's Lil' Monster" Harley is and people praise that as "empowerment".
    "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime

  14. #104
    Fantastic Member Jack The Tripper's Avatar
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    Those new set photos got me a bit more excited for this movie.

    I'm still not a fan of Ezra Miller honestly, but him having the Flash ring points to some fun being had with the character. Keaton looks great. I'm not a fan of Sasha Calle's costume for the most part (I really hate the texture of the Cavill suit, and it looks similar here), I hope with the cape I'll enjoy it more, but honestly even if I don't I'm not fussed - costumes won't take away from my enjoyment as long as the movie's good!

    But yeah, there's something about the set pics that just look super fun to me.

  15. #105
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Oh wait, I thought of a crossdressing superhero! SheZow! Admittedly not DC, but I found it an entertaining cartoon (although I only saw a handful of episodes at the time - I think my habit for sleeping in made me miss it). I'd refuse to watch a SheZow adaptation that ditches the skirt.
    What about Victoria October and Cybersix Cassandro and poison Do they count?
    Last edited by choptop; 06-22-2021 at 07:05 PM.

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