How would you have resurrected Jean?

[SiegePerilous02]

Ftfy.

The Dark Phoenix Saga, for as iconic of a story as it genuinely is, ain't ****. It exists as it is entirely because John Byrne is an unrepentant sexist (who also did similar things to Sue Storm and Wanda Maximoff without killing THEM off) who couldn't handle the idea behind a female character who was on par with or stronger than Marvel's apparent strongest character at the time, Thor. And the story really only holds up in a vacuum.

It's iconic but that's all that it is. The idea of Jean killing herself on the moon paired with the fact that characters like Thor, Silver Surfer, and other cosmic level heroes existed (who were male) takes away any and all impact because it just makes it seem like a woman can't have or control that amount of power.

The rest of Byrne's output doesn't concern me since I feel his X-Men run is the only good thing he's ever done. All of that together looks incredibly bad, but I feel Claremont's involvement in this one make it stand out more. And they co-plotted it together. The original planned ending was for Jean to passively be lobotomized of the Phoenix and then reject the return of the power in #150 when Magneto offers it to her. She and Scott would then get married and be written out of the book. Claremont was even re-purposing a story he had intended for Carol Danvers for Jean.

So it seems Jean's arc was designed to end with her losing the Phoenix no matter what, and Claremont had a hand in it. Maddie is essentially his ending for Jean re-purposed. At least in the story as published, Jean has more agency and a more memorable arc. With the options presented, she may have been a footnote in X-Men history instead of one of their most iconic characters if she had been robbed of power and married off instead. No thanks. And the X-Men benefited from Claremont at least seemingly picking up on the unfortunate implications of the Dark Phoenix saga, and not doing it again with other X-women.

[Harpsikord]

The rest of Byrne's output doesn't concern me since I feel his X-Men run is the only good thing he's ever done. All of that together looks incredibly bad, but I feel Claremont's involvement in this one make it stand out more. And they co-plotted it together. The original planned ending was for Jean to passively be lobotomized of the Phoenix and then reject the return of the power in #150 when Magneto offers it to her. She and Scott would then get married and be written out of the book. Claremont was even re-purposing a story he had intended for Carol Danvers for Jean.

So it seems Jean's arc was designed to end with her losing the Phoenix no matter what, and Claremont had a hand in it. Maddie is essentially his ending for Jean re-purposed. At least in the story as published, Jean has more agency and a more memorable arc. With the options presented, she may have been a footnote in X-Men history instead of one of their most iconic characters if she had been robbed of power and married off instead. No thanks. And the X-Men benefited from Claremont at least seemingly picking up on the unfortunate implications of the Dark Phoenix saga, and not doing it again with other X-women.

The thing is that before Byrne hopped on board, Claremont was actually perfectly fine continuing Phoenix as she was without going full on Dark with her. That's where a lot of my issue with Byrne and this story comes from - it's entirely out of left field, and he convinced Claremont that Jean HAD to go dark because it was a woman with power on par with other cosmic level heroes, who were men, so they were allowed to have that power. I agree that she does have more agency than just being left as 'the wife' in the Dark Phoenix Saga, but I can't help but feel that it was ultimately unnecessary. Even if he was going to write out Jean and Scott all along there was no reason not to just have them retire, at least for a bit.

[spirit2011]

The thing is that before Byrne hopped on board, Claremont was actually perfectly fine continuing Phoenix as she was without going full on Dark with her. That's where a lot of my issue with Byrne and this story comes from - it's entirely out of left field, and he convinced Claremont that Jean HAD to go dark because it was a woman with power on par with other cosmic level heroes, who were men, so they were allowed to have that power. I agree that she does have more agency than just being left as 'the wife' in the Dark Phoenix Saga, but I can't help but feel that it was ultimately unnecessary. Even if he was going to write out Jean and Scott all along there was no reason not to just have them retire, at least for a bit.

it was Byrne that drew the brocolli people on the planet when jean eat the star.

Byrne has clearly a problem with powerful women, at least I think Jean got the best deal bu tit was because of Claremont

[Phoenixx9]

Jean as Phoenix, resurrects herself, as she originally did after the initial space flight.

Jean is Phoenix------the power is hers. She is an Omega Level Telepath and Telekinetic.

Jean goes by "Phoenix" and wears a new and much updated costume with a Phoenix symbol. (Perhaps the radiant yellow and black one or the green one seen on the JG thread with the Phoenix Symbol on the chest).

[Ferro]

i also think she should have left the x-men and stayed in the avengers for the foreseable future

[CoCoBandz]

i also think she should have left the x-men and stayed in the avengers for the foreseable future

Why the downgrade?

[Ferro]

Why the downgrade?

Downgrade to who?

[CoCoBandz]

Downgrade to who?

Earth's Mightiest Assholes

[Kingdom X]

Earth's Mightiest Assholes

While I wouldn’t want Jean to ever permanently be with the Avengers, I think it would be mutually beneficial if she joined at some point. The X-Men have so many great leading women that I think it’s hard for Jean to stand out (personality wise), while I think the Avengers are lacking in that department. Also, it’d be nice to have a mutant representative on the team that isn’t Wolverine.

[Mutant God]

Sacrificing a virgin mutant and then Jean takes over their body

[Journey]

I wouldn't have....

[spirit2011]

While I wouldn’t want Jean to ever permanently be with the Avengers, I think it would be mutually beneficial if she joined at some point. The X-Men have [b;so many great leading women that I think it’s hard for Jean to stand out (personality wise),[/b] while I think the Avengers are lacking in that department. Also, it’d be nice to have a mutant representative on the team that isn’t Wolverine.

jean has zero problems personality wise. Jean only problem is that majority of writers don't like her

[CoCoBandz]

jean has zero problems personality wise. Jean only problem is that majority of writers don't like her

Why would you think such a thing?

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

If Jean is so easy to miss, why is there such a tight restriction on who she is allowed to interact with and interact with? Lmao

[Journey]

My only issues with Jean is what I've read with her in it tends to just focus on her for the majority of the run and after a while that just gets boring and exhausting.