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Thread: Spider-Men

  1. #1
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Default Spider-Men

    A positive review of the Spider-Man mini-series from a few years back has got me thinking about the story's reputation.
    http://www.panelpatter.com/2020/04/t...pider-men.html

    When it came out, I enjoyed it but didn't think that much of it. Now it's popping up on some best of lists, and was partially the basis for the Into the Spider-Verse movie.

    What do you guys think of it?
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
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    Honestly, the further we get from the destruction of 1610, the more confusing the story might be to new readers.

    At the very least, less impactful. If I recall, it came out (or takes place at least) before Ultimate Spider-Man 200.

    It's very much one of those stories that can only be recommended while giving a lot of backstory.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    As a comic and story, I liked Spider-Men II more than the first one.

    Spider-Men I is fun and interesting. It had a value in terms of being the first crossover between 616 and Ultimate Marvel and that was the initial hook. At the time it came out, it was one year after Miles' debut. 2012 was also Spider-Man's 50th Year anniversary. So there's a lot of stuff attached to it in terms of the significance of it all.

    I think the weakness in both stories is the fact that Bendis' doesn't write 616 Peter well. I mean this is a common complaint, and you can see instances of it in The Pulse, New Avengers and other stuff he wrote 616 Peter, but it really comes across clearly in these two cross-overs. He writes 616 Jonah well, 616 Norman decent-enough, and 616 MJ decently, but he never really does well enough with 616 Peter. He obviously feels more comfortable with the Ultimate Peter he created, and there's a reticence and respect that prevents him from transferring that to 616. You can tell that in the epilogue of Spider-Men II where Ultimate Peter and his cast show up, and automatically you get a sense of relief from Bendis.

    These two stories are more about Miles than Peter is what I am saying. In that light, ITSV made the right choice in using them as a base.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    A positive review of the Spider-Man mini-series from a few years back has got me thinking about the story's reputation.
    http://www.panelpatter.com/2020/04/t...pider-men.html

    When it came out, I enjoyed it but didn't think that much of it. Now it's popping up on some best of lists, and was partially the basis for the Into the Spider-Verse movie.

    What do you guys think of it?
    Didn't think much of it. Not terrible but nothing special, either. It was, you know, fine.

    I think it's likely popping up on some best of lists just because it's an easy choice for people too lazy to do any deep dives and also unlikely to ruffle anyone's feathers.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Visually, it's great, story wise, it doesn't have much to add. Maybe at its time, it was something new and atractive, but I don't think the story has much to tell. The interactions between characters are fine, but it's lacking an interesting plot to hold it all together
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

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  6. #6
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Didn't think much of it. Not terrible but nothing special, either. It was, you know, fine.

    I think it's likely popping up on some best of lists just because it's an easy choice for people too lazy to do any deep dives and also unlikely to ruffle anyone's feathers.
    I do think part of why it pops up so much is that it's an accessible Miles Morales story.

    His origin is a little bit weird because it kept having cliffhangers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    Honestly, the further we get from the destruction of 1610, the more confusing the story might be to new readers.

    At the very least, less impactful. If I recall, it came out (or takes place at least) before Ultimate Spider-Man 200.

    It's very much one of those stories that can only be recommended while giving a lot of backstory.
    This is a fair point. It is both acclaimed and out of continuity.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    This is a fair point. It is both acclaimed and out of continuity.
    Well, that's the weird thing. I'm not sure it is out of continuity.

    Spider-men II was about finding 616's Miles. And nothing was ever addressed explicitly, but a lot of bits here and there seem to imply that Peter and Miles are aware of 1610's existence.

  8. #8
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    One of my favorite Spider-Man stories.

    Bendis is great when it comes to creating emotional moments with Peter's family and the dynamic between the characters.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Thought it was okay. Not sure having 616 Spidey meet Miles had as much weight as it did when Miles met Ultimate Peter later down the line. Like a lot of stuff with the Miles comics, while not bad, I think the Spider-Verse movie took the idea and made it better.
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  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Thought it was okay. Not sure having 616 Spidey meet Miles had as much weight as it did when Miles met Ultimate Peter later down the line. Like a lot of stuff with the Miles comics, while not bad, I think the Spider-Verse movie took the idea and made it better.
    That I agree. When Miles met Ultimate Peter after his resurrection that felt more emotionally fitting than with 616 Peter.

  11. #11
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I think the novelty of the story, being the first real crossover between the Ultimate Universe and the main 616 Universe, and the first real meeting of Peter Parker and Miles Morales carries it even if it's not that memorable a story otherwise.

    It definitely had more influence on the story of Into the Spider-Verse, along with the first arc of Miles' run, than Slott's Spider-Verse did in my opinion.

    Spider-Men II, on the other hand, just really doesn't have much going for it for my money.
    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Thought it was okay. Not sure having 616 Spidey meet Miles had as much weight as it did when Miles met Ultimate Peter later down the line. Like a lot of stuff with the Miles comics, while not bad, I think the Spider-Verse movie took the idea and made it better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    That I agree. When Miles met Ultimate Peter after his resurrection that felt more emotionally fitting than with 616 Peter.
    I didn't dislike Miles meeting Ultimate Peter but that arc felt too much like Bendis couldn't help himself with the resurrections.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Spider-Men II, on the other hand, just really doesn't have much going for it for my money.
    And even then, I feel like Saladin Ahmed's Miles Morales book, by giving 616 Miles some actual substantive role, is what helps S-M II feel better than it is. Because on its own its just really a jumbled mess, I'm still honestly not sure what the overall story and arc was supposed to be. They should've either completely focused on following and better defining who 616 Miles is, or demonstrating the connection between him and Spidey Miles, because otherwise they really don't have that much in common besides a few superficial things. It's pretty much just a "And then this happened." Plus them still being coy on the Ultimate/616 transfer backstory doesn't help things.

    I think Spider-Men I works because it isn't trying to be this grand thing that's supposed to be a big deal, and answering major mysteries, it's just a fun short adventure. It has some little twists that re-contextualize some things (Ultimate Mysterio was 616 Mysterio all along), but isn't necessary to understand everything, it works as Peter & Miles' first meeting, you get some emotional moments out of the May & Gwen reunion, but other than that nothing supposed to blow your mind.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, Sonic The Hedgehog, Absolute Carnage, Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man, Gwenpool Strikes Back, Runaways, The White Trees

  13. #13
    World's Greatest Hero blackspidey2099's Avatar
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    Spider-Men was decent but nothing great. Spider-Men II was terrible, IMO.
    "Anyone can win a fight when the odds are easy! It's when the going's tough - when there seems to be no chance - that's when it counts!" - Spider-Man

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the novelty of the story, being the first real crossover between the Ultimate Universe and the main 616 Universe, and the first real meeting of Peter Parker and Miles Morales carries it even if it's not that memorable a story otherwise.
    Well, it did confirm on page that the original Nick Fury is lame compared to the Samuel L. Jackson version.
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  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Well, it did confirm on page that the original Nick Fury is lame compared to the Samuel L. Jackson version.
    That's actually the weakest part of Spider-Men I, all the interactions with the extended Ultimate Universe. That was typical of the worst part of Ultimate Marvel where practically every story becomes about SHIELD and Ultimate Fury (for me blowing up SHIELD in Captain America: The Winter Soldier was super-cathartic because it was a f--k you to the Ultimate Marvel "all-powerful all-knowing" idea of the organization).

    That's why I like Spider-Men II...that was just a story of Miles and 616 Peter and for the first time established some kind of bond between them. And in fact, ITSV probably drew more from that then Spider-Men I at least in terms of dynamic.

    Spider-Men I had to thread too many stuff in a needle. It's got many big ideas that by themselves are worth doing in an extended story-arc all done side-by-side in a single story arc. Like Peter coming into an universe where he's dead and beloved as a great hero...that's a great 6-7 story arc right there. However it also becomes the first 616-Ultimate Marvel crossover which ideally needs a big scale (like Secret Wars 2015) to pull that off...so that brings in Fury and his fellow a--holes. It also becomes a story about Miles meeting "a" Peter for the first time. Not his Peter, and that becomes also a story about May, Gwen, and MJ meeting this Peter. So it's a mess.

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