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  1. #16
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    -Superman The Movie
    -Superman for All Seasons
    -All Star Superman
    -Whatever Happened to the man of tommorow
    -Superman: Secret Identity
    -Superman: Red Son
    -Superman TAS

  2. #17
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly Frankenstein View Post
    So many good stories.

    The Man of Steel by Byrne
    Action Comics 600 was fun and had great art in the first chapter by both Byrne and Perez.
    Kase of the Krimson Kryptonite. Supes being de powered and Clark and Lois getting engaged.
    Death and Return of Superman. Nuff said.
    Action Comics Annual 3 (Armegeddon 2001 tie in). Superman as president was awesome.
    Action 775. What so funny about... great story.
    DC One Million. Shows just how important Superman is.
    Man, this is such a good list. Somehow I didn't really go with classics. Krimson Kryptonite (you know, the only thing is that I was annoyed by the initials of the story) and the overall story of Mxy's relationship with lies, and President Superman are two of the most underrated imo. Action 600/Return to Krypton/World of Krypton is a really complete stretch too.

    Of course that all reminds me of the Supergirl saga, the Stern Mignola Banshee story, Exile, and Power Within. That's like a whole second list though I guess haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    This is probably one of the most famous stories I haven't actually read. Based on your list though it's definitely something I should. That and Miracle Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvenger View Post
    In terms of strictly essential Superman comic book stories only:

    All Star Superman by Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely

    Superman Secret Identity by Kurt Busiek and Stuart Immonen

    For The Man Who Has Everything by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons

    Superman #400 "The Living Legends of Superman by Elliot Maggin et al

    What's so Funny about Truth, Justice and The American Way by Joe Kelly and Doug Mankhe

    Superman Birthright by Mark Waid and Lenil Yu

    Superman For All Seasons by Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    "The Death of Superman" (Superman #149) - Jerry Siegel and Curt Swan

    The Man of Steel - John Byrne and Dick Giordano

    Superman for All Seasons - Jeff Loeb and Tim Sale

    "22 Stories in a Single Bound" (Superman Adventures #41) - Mark Millar

    Superman: Red Son - Mark Millar and Dave Johnson

    All-Star Superman - Grant Morrison and Frank Quietly

    Man and Superman - Marv Wolfman and Claudio Castellini
    These two for me might be the most classic of Superman lists.
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  3. #18
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    I have to ask though, why do people think what's so funny is essential to superman? It's at best a passable story for me. It's just one of those messianic figure stories. The speech is great and all. But to quote tony stark, " i don't trust a man who doesn't have a dark side.Call me old fashioned". Clark's whole shtick is to ignore the darkside with his messiah complex. It also doesn't do anything to address or fix the problem with status quo or system. It just brushes it aside.

  4. #19
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    If you read it as a story about Superman as a Messiah then I guess I can't deny it's possible for someone to see it that way, but that's definitely not the story to me. It's also not to posit that Superman doesn't have a "dark side," just an address on the end justifying the means when it comes to lethal superheroics.

    I think when you pull up the discussion on Reddit or comic blogs like multiversity (I just did some lazy googling) you get some solid explanations of the basic concept. It always feels to me like maybe people are overthinking it.


    Tasarus

    Apr 16, 2016
    At the end, when he tricks Black into thinking his powers are gone, Black begins to cry and denies that Superman could do such a thing. He's in the same position as all the villains he's killed, and he loses it

    It's not so much an argument for Superman, he just keeps doing what he thinks is right. He can't force everyone to be like him, just give them an example. So he shows the Elite what exactly their victims go through, the feelings of fear and powerlessness, the loss of their power and identity, and ultimately death.

    Superman doesn't beat them in a fight, he shows them why he thinks their methods are flawed. And considering Blacks reaction, he probably got the point home at least a little.

    In the end though, it's a comic Universe. In the real world, if a giant gorilla monster was destroying Libya, yes, it would be totally ok to eradicate it. I imagine the point of the comic is more a pleading for a return to classic comic values, like Kingdom Come was. The creators are depressed to see stories of violence and bloodshed becoming so popular, and want a return to noble ideas and upstanding unshakable paragons. And I agree with them. I don't read comics for realism. If I want to see people being massacred, I can watch the news, see a movie, read a book. I enjoy Superheroes because they are idealized heroes, that strive no matter what to achieve a standard we may find impossible in todays world, but one day won't be so ridiculous. Superman is the Man of Tomorrow, after all.
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  5. #20
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    Superman's dark side.................... lol

    That would be fun.... It could be like fifty shades of Gray... lol ''spank me loise...'' ''spank me'' lol

  6. #21
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    All-Star Superman
    Superman Smashes the Klan
    Grant Morrison's Action Comics.
    Of Thee I Sing
    Miracle Monday
    22 Stories in a Single Bound
    Camelot Falls

  7. #22
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurz View Post
    Superman's dark side.................... lol

    That would be fun.... It could be like fifty shades of Gray... lol ''spank me loise...'' ''spank me'' lol
    While that's funny. I am largely talking about the temper, certain disregard for laws and protocols, being reckless...etc.

  8. #23
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    If you read it as a story about Superman as a Messiah then I guess I can't deny it's possible for someone to see it that way, but that's definitely not the story to me. It's also not to posit that Superman doesn't have a "dark side," just an address on the end justifying the means when it comes to lethal superheroics.

    I think when you pull up the discussion on Reddit or comic blogs like multiversity (I just did some lazy googling) you get some solid explanations of the basic concept. It always feels to me like maybe people are overthinking it.
    It posit's that "luckily, i am not like you and never be like you". It posits that he is above anger and vengeance. Two human desires that's basic to human nature. That's screams moral superiority and putting yourself in a pedestal or a place that's above people. I wouldn't say he doesn't have a dark side. He is just naive enough to think it's something that can be suppressed or ignored or set aside. That statement itself reeks of pride, yet he is ignorant of it. The deadliest of all sins.for me, superman isn't greater than any man. This idea that superman sees his morality something people should aspire to without any indication of modesty or flexibility and is rigid is asking for trouble. He basically making himself the church. This is why batman and superman fights happen. Nietzsche was fundamentally against this sort of thing. People's morality should for them to figure out. It shouldn't be a hand out nor should it lead to rigidnorms that suffocates people. If you do, that itself creates a power accumulation in the form of influence guised as morality that leads to social rigidity and injustice . See, problem isn't superman acts like a messiah. It's that his writers treat him as the church and anything that stands in contrast as blasphemious.

    While, i admit the story itself doesn't have superman try to be this figure, largely. But, it does enforces the tendency of later writers to do tgat.

    And that's basically hypocritical from a guy who is called "man of might". Set that aside a flaw or contradiction.A utilitarian gives more priority to results than outcome. Fine, i will play the devils advocate. Lethal superheriocs or Vigilantism is bad. Then what? Does that change the fact that superman's unwillingness to take charge seeing the justice system not doing anything that causes death and destruction?no. Does he criticise the way in which these villains are sent of the hook to do whatever ? No. Does superman fight the system regarding people's saftey? No. If two wrongs don't make a right. Shouldn't that apply to supermanas well. Seeing as he is not doing anything to change the system?isn't he also wrong? These guys basically say it's people's choice. Well, as part of the people superman doesn't champion the safety of people from villains. Does he? So he is part of the system that creates vengeance and anger driven people like Manchester black. Making him also guilty.

    Also, batman's complaint with superman in darkknight returns was this exact thing.
    "your orders? You say you answer to some sort of authority. They only want me dead because i am an embarrassment. Because i do what they can't. What kind of authority is that?"
    Superman basically says "its their world, their choice they won't stand for it"
    This is where superman is flawed. He forgets that its his world. These are also his people. As part of the world if he isn't willing to do anything while people suffer. Then his pride of moral superiority is in vain. This is where miller's caricaturised superman works. He basically shows how Superman has become a shadow of himself. Superman exists because suffering exists. Because he couldn't standby what his people was going through while he had the potential to do something about it. He had power and he was wellversed with people's problems .

    But, that doesn’t mean set himself up as an example for humanity. Humanity doesn't need an example. They can stand on their own two legs. Sure, it might be hard and They might be flawed. Superman is written to think that humanity needs a northstar for guidance. Then he is being written to be given more importance than he deserves. Its a self-indulgent exercise. There is a difference between a leader or a captain and a messiah. Batman or spiderman never gets dubbed nor do they proclaim such things.Writers are hollowing superman as a figure. Furthermore, their ethics are for selflimitation. They aren't meant for others. Batman doesn't say he doesn't kill because others might start to follow that. He doesn't because if he does he fears going offbalance mentally. So, as long superman isn't written to do or find alternative for solving these problems. He is basically saying nothing, only "TV is broken. But don't get angry at the company for not providing repair service and doing nothing". . While i appreciate the gesture and calm headedness, there is a difference between being calm and doing nothing.

    As for being, judge, jury and executioner if a psychopath starts killing people because he is power drunk or being fun or whatever. Then if he is not willing to comply to reason. Let's say, something like in the man of steel movie happens. Then what? Clark's going to sit around while he murders humanity? If needed be lethal means will have to be taken as a measure of life preservation. He can't just say it's people's choice. And be done with that.

    Might makes right might not be right. But, that sure as hell doesn't might is a driving force of society. Nations even demorcratic ones use might to enforce laws, so that order can be maintained. Saying might doesn't make right wouldn't take might or power out of equation. Power will always be part of the equation. You can't kill it.All anybody can do is it's being shared to the maximum and doesn't accumulate in one place. Even that has flaws. Sometimes, it's better to have someone who is wellversed or informed to have the power.And superman above everyone should know it.

    I can understand people wanting to go back to a more straightforward world. But, the problem with that itself is superman himself wasn't meant to be a straight forward kantian guy who strictly follows rules, truth, nonviolence or atleast nonlethal violence.. Etc. He was made into that, so that children can read it safely.Ofcourse, layers might come back.Difference between batman and superman is that. Batman got the chance to go back in many ways to his roots. People are resistant of that happening with superman.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 04-11-2020 at 03:19 AM.

  9. #24
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    This is probably one of the most famous stories I haven't actually read. Based on your list though it's definitely something I should. That and Miracle Monday.
    Thanks. I know many will turn up their noses, but I still love Speeding Bullets since it's one of the numerous books that brought me back to DC Comics.

    And about Miracle Monday, am I correct in saying that's a written novel and not a comic book?

  10. #25
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    On the premise that comparing serialized stories over more than one issue to stories contained within one issue is like comparing several bowls of Kellog's Apple Jacks cereal to one Cadbury Orange Creme Egg, for the purposes of this list I'll force myself just to stick to stories contained within one issue. Which means I have to leave out a lot of my favourite tales.

    1. The untitled first adventure of Superman, SUPERMAN [1, Summer 1939]--by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster. I'm cleverly getting around my self-imposed rule and choosing a two-part Superman story (that originally appeared over the first and second issues of ACTION COMICS) in its augmented and altered form for the first (unnumbered, undated) issue of SUPERMAN in 1939. You have four actual stories in that issue, all untitled, but the first two make up one continuous tale, so it's that tale I'm selecting.

    The bulk of the first part is the same as that in ACTION COMICS No. 1, which itself had been cut down from the original comic strip that Shuster had illustrated, when Jerry and Joe were shopping around their strip to different syndicates. Added panels and pages are:
    • the elderly Kents find the rocket, adopt the baby, raise Clark--Mrs. Kent’s first name is given as Mary.
    • young Clark leaps over skyscrapers in an unidentified city or town.
    • the grown Clark, now with his full powers, at the Kents’ grave--missing is the original sequence that gives an explanation for his powers (an expanded explanation appears elsewhere in the issue).
    • Clark tries to get a job at the DAILY STAR, but is turned down by (unnamed) Editor
    • Superman prevents a lynching, Clark gets the job.
    • Superman finds Bea Carroll (the murderess).
    • Superman has red boots in the added panels.
    The second part that takes Superman and Emil Norvell to the war in San Monte is essentially the same as it was in ACTION COMICS 2--note that Clak sends photos of the war to the EVENING NEWS in Cleveland, Ohio. An ad for the newspaper strip appears at the bottom of the last page for this part, taking the place of the promo for "Acquiring Super-Strength." Plus, in this issue: "The Opportunity of a Life Time!" a two page promotional ad with application coupon for readers to become charter members of the Supermen of America; "Scientific Explanation of Superman’s Amazing Strength," a full page explanation for Superman’s powers.

    2. "King of the Comic Books," SUPERMAN 25 (November-December 1943)--by Jerry Siegel, Joe Shuster and Ira Yarbrough. This story has Siegel and Shuster mocking themselves, as Lane and Kent meet Carson Steele, the credited creator of Geezer, a comics character hated by Hitler and his Nazi pals. The true creator, Henry Jones, is snatched by Nazi spies and Superman must save him as Geezer.

    3. "Superman Returns to Krypton," SUPERMAN 61 (November-December 1949)--by Bill Finger and Al Plastino. This story has the first appearance of Kryptonite in the comics (it had been used on the radio show) and it has Superman tracing the rock back to its origins on Krypton, with the Man of Might flying into the past and visiting Krypton (as a time travelling phantom) to witness his own origin story, which is a surprise to him (apparently he never knew where he came from before this adventure).

    4. “The Superman from Outer Space,”ACTION COMICS 265 (June 1960)--by Otto Binder, Curt Swan and John Forte. One of my all time favourite stories, as Superman meets his doppelgänger, Hyper-Man of Oceania. When we encounter this other Superman, we see a lot of the features that distinguish the Man of Steel himself and gain insights into his own psychology and what he would wish for himself.

    5. "The Showdown Between Luthor and Superman," SUPERMAN 164 (October 1963)--by Edmond Hamilton, Curt Swan and George Klein. Maybe the greatest Superman story ever told. For me it stands out as representing all the essentials of Superman. And as a story it's perfect. The opening set-up, the twists and turns throughout the story and the resolution--it's simply the best you could want from any Superman adventure. It also introduces the idea of Lexor, my favourite idea for Lex Luthor.

    6. "Must There Be a Superman?" SUPERMAN 247 (January 1972)--by Elliot S! Maggin, Curt Swan and Murphy Anderson [based on an idea by Jeph Loeb]. This was the very first Superman story that Maggin wrote and its his signature contribution to the Caped Kryptonian's ethos. With just a few words from the Guardians of the Universe (and featuring a cameo from my favourite Green Lantern, Katma Tui), an idea is implanted in Superman's mind that serves to limit his powers in a way that's much more effective than any arbitrary weakness like Kryptonite or magic. Why doesn't Superman do more to save humanity? This story gives a simple and straightforward answer.

    7. "For the Man Who Has Everything" SUPERMAN ANNUAL 11 (1985)--by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons. What's nice about Alan Moore is that for the most part, even while creating something new, he doesn't invalidate the work of other creators before him--he takes what they created and then shows you an additional element to that work. This story doesn't absolutely require that you've read "Superman's Return to Krypton"--by Jerry Siegel, Wayne Boring and Stan Kaye, in SUPERMAN 141 (November 1960)--or the Mongul stories--in DC COMICS PRESENTS by Len Wein and Jim Starlin--but it helps if you have.

    Note: I reserve the right to make honourable mentions at a later date.

  11. #26
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    - Action Comics #1
    - Action Comics #242 -- First meeting with Brainiac, the Floating City of Kandor.
    - Superman vs. Muhammad Ali.
    - "For the Man Who Has Everything"
    - "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" -- For me the definitive finale of Superman, everything after this is some kind of flashback issue or other. But that's just me.
    - Peter Tomasi's Super-Family series.
    - Superman the Animated Series/Justice League -- I'd say the whole series, but specific ones I'd list are "World's Finest/Legacy/Hereafter/Destroyer"

    I'd also add a song. There are a lot of songs with Superman in them, and to me when I think of song, "(Wish I could fly like) Superman" comes to mind a great deal.

  12. #27
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I have to ask though, why do people think what's so funny is essential to superman?
    I don't get why people like that story either. I mean, if you actually stop and look at it, it's f*cking awful. Clark fails to defend his opinion, every single time, while the Elite, every single time, can point to concrete, factual reasons that support their methodology. And in the end, Clark doesn't win the argument, there's no great moral victory, he just beats up the people who disagree with him, and then preens like he won the debate.

    What's So Funny.... is actually one of my least favorite Superman stories of all time.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  13. #28
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    It posit's that "luckily, i am not like you and never be like you". It posits that he is above anger and vengeance. Two human desires that's basic to human nature. That's screams moral superiority and putting yourself in a pedestal or a place that's above people. I wouldn't say he doesn't have a dark side. He is just naive enough to think it's something that can be suppressed or ignored or set aside. That statement itself reeks of pride, yet he is ignorant of it. The deadliest of all sins.for me, superman isn't greater than any man.
    Sorry to truncate such a long post because I know how time consuming it can get. But the point on vengeance is that while yes, he is above it, his mindset is that we can and should all be. Is that wrong or contradictory to what the character generally stands for? He states that his loyalty is to the dream. If you like One Piece as well, I'm sure you were able to understand what it meant for Luffy to stand for his dream against Bellamy even if it made him look completely foolish, and then how beating Bellamy later didn't contradict that. To assume that Superman puts himself above anger doesn't make any sense as a criticism of the story because he's definitely angry with the elite. It's just that the anger isn't what drives him.

    Again, I think it's a story that somehow makes people overthink it. Superman is the church? That's not what this story represents by the author's intention or how it's conventionally read. Some of the questions you bring up are associated ideas but aren't what Kelly asks or answers.

    As for being, judge, jury and executioner if a psychopath starts killing people because he is power drunk or being fun or whatever. Then if he is not willing to comply to reason. Let's say, something like in the man of steel movie happens. Then what? Clark's going to sit around while he murders humanity? If needed be lethal means will have to be taken as a measure of life preservation. He can't just say it's people's choice. And be done with that.
    He doesn't say lethal means are never appropriate. I think that's the second biggest misconception. He just says that it's not a decision to be made and that goes both ways. Lethal force is an outcome, but not a solution. It really isn't harder to understand than a cop arresting a murderer versus just killing them. The Elite ideology is the opposite and that's the issue taken, they appoint themselves to have the authority over those decisions. Superman applies himself within confines because he's not having a Messiah trip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I don't get why people like that story either. I mean, if you actually stop and look at it, it's f*cking awful. Clark fails to defend his opinion, every single time, while the Elite, every single time, can point to concrete, factual reasons that support their methodology. And in the end, Clark doesn't win the argument, there's no great moral victory, he just beats up the people who disagree with him, and then preens like he won the debate.

    What's So Funny.... is actually one of my least favorite Superman stories of all time.
    The thing is that he doesn't beat them up, he outsmarts them. Whether you think he's more powerful than them or not, the difference between what he believes and what they believe is the difference between them living and dying. They call him to a duel to kill him on air, so he shows up and takes them out with as little force as possible and shows their leader how it feels to be a victim of their methods without actually using their methods. He believes that dreams save us, so consequently he spares them to show them another way. They got a second chance. Should Superman... not give that when he can?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    - Superman vs. Muhammad Ali.
    I really think this might have had the best premise and art execution of a story. As a Superman fan I'm proud of that comic existing.

    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    Thanks. I know many will turn up their noses, but I still love Speeding Bullets since it's one of the numerous books that brought me back to DC Comics.

    And about Miracle Monday, am I correct in saying that's a written novel and not a comic book?
    I actually felt like MM being all text lacked the most basic appeal for me when it comes to comic characters (the visual expression). I'd kill to see it adapted but I should get around to it regardless.
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  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    I was a big fan of the Authority at the time and they routinely take down or stop Superman types, so I did enjoy reading about Superman take down Manchester Black. Its not one of my seven favorite stories. As far as "newer" Superman stories, I definitely put Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, Kingdom Come, Superman Red Son, DC 1,000,000, definitely Superman Smashes the Klan, Superman Up In the Sky, and maybe Of Tomorrow, the short story by Tom King. It feels like the Alan Moore stuff, and maybe Kingdom Come are from a different era than the other stories. I actually like For Tomorrow the Brian Azarello book.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    Thanks. I know many will turn up their noses, but I still love Speeding Bullets since it's one of the numerous books that brought me back to DC Comics.

    And about Miracle Monday, am I correct in saying that's a written novel and not a comic book?
    Yeah, Miracle Monday is a novel

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