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  1. #1
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    Default Vulcan(Marvel) vs Kilowog/Mongul Jr(Post Crisis DC)

    It's been confirmed in the current X-Men run that Vulcan survived his fight with Black Bolt which had him tank a full on scream from the King, then while still recovering from that(was reforming his body from ambient energy around him and looked like a zombie) he survived a bomb that tore time/space/reality like tissue paper. That made me think of this fight here.

    Fight 1: Vulcan vs Mongul Jr

    Fight 2: Vulcan vs Kilowog

  2. #2
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Kilowog is at a really solid risk of being drained dry. Vulcan is a stupidly powerful energy manipulator, and sucking the energy from a ring and using it as he sees fit is right up his alley.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

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  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Drizzle View Post
    It's been confirmed in the current X-Men run that Vulcan survived his fight with Black Bolt which had him tank a full on scream from the King, then while still recovering from that(was reforming his body from ambient energy around him and looked like a zombie) he survived a bomb that tore time/space/reality like tissue paper. That made me think of this fight here.

    Fight 1: Vulcan vs Mongul Jr

    Fight 2: Vulcan vs Kilowog
    So the thing is that Vulcan can still be 10 counted by sufficient damage just fine, and punching him out remains a viable tactic. Both of these two are quite good at punching. Neither is Gladiator without ring boosting, but they probably don't need to be.

    To prevent that, Vulcan would need to basically fully take over the ring energy and turn it on them, and I'm not sure he can do that while they are actively contesting him. High end Lanterns have a lot more oomph and high end energy manipulation than, say, the Summers brothers or the Imperial Guards Vulcan messed up.

    Edit: this is an interesting fight because I'd give Kilowag better odds than Hal Jordan just on having a higher base strength.

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    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    So the thing is that Vulcan can still be 10 counted by sufficient damage just fine, and punching him out remains a viable tactic. Both of these two are quite good at punching. Neither is Gladiator without ring boosting, but they probably don't need to be.

    To prevent that, Vulcan would need to basically fully take over the ring energy and turn it on them, and I'm not sure he can do that while they are actively contesting him. High end Lanterns have a lot more oomph and high end energy manipulation than, say, the Summers brothers or the Imperial Guards Vulcan messed up.

    Edit: this is an interesting fight because I'd give Kilowag better odds than Hal Jordan just on having a higher base strength.
    Geoff Johns is going to put a hit out on you for daring impugn the holy name of Hal, the bestest Lantern ever.

    And... yeah, it's an interesting enough sort of matchup. I'm not going to argue with you, my friend, on high end Lantern performance. Vulcan's awfully "up there" himself.

    How strong/tough is Kilowag, without the ring?
    Last edited by big_adventure; 04-09-2020 at 02:50 PM.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."
    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  5. #5
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Edit: this is an interesting fight because I'd give Kilowag better odds than Hal Jordan just on having a higher base strength.
    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    How strong/tough is Kilowag, without the ring?
    Is this some metric unit of 1000 happy dogs?

    Or do you both mean Kilowog?

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Geoff Johns is going to put a hit out on you for daring impugn the holy name of Hal, the bestest Lantern ever.

    And... yeah, it's an interesting enough sort of matchup. I'm not going to argue with you, my friend, on high end Lantern performance. Vulcan's awfully "up there" himself.

    How strong/tough is Kilowag, without the ring?
    Well he was casually counterbalancing 10,000 (or possibly 10,000,000, hard to read) weights in an early appearance. He's also jobbed to Hal in a ringless punch out, but that was at peak Geoff Johns Hal fandom.

    He also took it to Superman pretty successfully with his ring, and he beat Akrillo one on one, and Akrillo had a pretty knocked down dragged out fist fight with Mongul sans rings.

  7. #7
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Well he was casually counterbalancing 10,000 (or possibly 10,000,000, hard to read) weights in an early appearance.
    There's a lot of room for error there. :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    He's also jobbed to Hal in a ringless punch out, but that was at peak Geoff Johns Hal fandom.
    Pretty sure we shouldn't hold that against him. Anyone other than Barry Allen or Clark Kent would have lost in an unarmed punchup with Hal under those circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    He also took it to Superman pretty successfully with his ring,
    The ring kind of invalidates the feat, though, doesn't it? I'm straight up asking and not stating. Also, this would seem to imply the usual dose of DC speedster PIS, yes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    and he beat Akrillo one on one, and Akrillo had a pretty knocked down dragged out fist fight with Mongul sans rings.
    That's definitely getting somewhere. Mongul is pretty high tier for strength. Was that all done sans rings?
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."
    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

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    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    Is this some metric unit of 1000 happy dogs?

    Or do you both mean Kilowog?
    Nope, 1000 happy dogs FTW. What's a Kilowog?
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."
    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Drizzle View Post
    It's been confirmed in the current X-Men run that Vulcan survived his fight with Black Bolt which had him tank a full on scream from the King, then while still recovering from that(was reforming his body from ambient energy around him and looked like a zombie) he survived a bomb that tore time/space/reality like tissue paper. That made me think of this fight here.

    Fight 1: Vulcan vs Mongul Jr

    Fight 2: Vulcan vs Kilowog
    I would note that Vulcan's ability to rebuild himself from being wrecked, doesn't stop those experiences from at the very least ten counting him, as it were. "Tank" isn't thus the word I'd use per se.

  10. #10
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    I would note that Vulcan's ability to rebuild himself from being wrecked, doesn't stop those experiences from at the very least ten counting him, as it were. "Tank" isn't thus the word I'd use per se.
    I wouldn't think that anyone is doubting that. This is a lot longer than a 10 count, as it were. :-)

    It's more the energy manipulator versus energy manipulator sort of thing, at least, for me. Vulcan has a ridiculous ability to suck in energy and use it as he sees fit. Would it be enough here, is the question.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."
    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    There's a lot of room for error there. :-)



    Pretty sure we shouldn't hold that against him. Anyone other than Barry Allen or Clark Kent would have lost in an unarmed punchup with Hal under those circumstances.



    The ring kind of invalidates the feat, though, doesn't it? I'm straight up asking and not stating. Also, this would seem to imply the usual dose of DC speedster PIS, yes?



    That's definitely getting somewhere. Mongul is pretty high tier for strength. Was that all done sans rings?
    Oops, meant to post the link.

    https://imgur.com/a/TAKGi

    He had the ring but was explicitly not using it. Just his inherent racial strength.

    So the reason I brought up taking it to Superman, even with the ring, is because the rings stack with inherent strength. That's most of why Mongul was able to take on Kyle Rayner plus like 7 other Lantern all stars at the same time.

    Kilowog is generally treated as the brick of the Lanterns, with or without his ring. Akrillo and Mongul dueled without their rings, but but Kilowog and Akrillo threw down with them. My point was that they'd both still have their inherent strength stacked with the ring, so Kilowog had to overcome that when he took Akrillo down.

    Also, I don't know how strong he needs to be exactly. What durability feats does he have against non-energy damage, again? I know Gladiator wrecked him and knocked out his eye, but he's Gladiator.

  12. #12
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    In my relatively vague knowledge of the Lanterns (compared to you) I know that at least about Kilowog. :-)

    The Akrillo stuff tracks, then, at least I'd go with it. Well, outside of the "some lanterns are better than others" part, because Kilowog don't want no part of a pissed off Kyle, or anything like that.

    For Vulcan it's a bit nebulous. He does things like blast his body straight through armored and shielded starships. Glads knocked out his eye. Black Bolt chipped teeth and drew blood. If I were to infer, based on what we see, it seems that he's got some level of autoshields, which he can amp up. But he's just not in that many physical dustups, and the only ones he enters into are generally with some pretty ludicrous foes.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."
    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  13. #13

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    Vulcan's absorbed blasts from Annihilarion-era Adam Warlock during his "vague magical woo" phase. Properly braced for it, he commented that magic is basically no different than any other energy.

    While Black Bolt shouting straight into his face didn't kill him, other than the caveat of 'Vulcan absorbs energy if he can see it coming' I'm pretty sure that's super low-end for BB, and the shock of it flayed him and knocked him out, easily for a 10-count even if he did try to choke him out later.

    On a side note...man, sounds like it took a while, but they've reset almost everything from that series of events, huh? Just gonna wait till Phyla unbanishes herself from the shadow realm or whatever.

  14. #14
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    Sorry for the late reply

    When Vulcan reformed from Black Bolts scream I'm pretty sure it was in seconds as Black Bolt was found and rescued just after he finished his scream and they took a couple steps away from where Vulcan was and he atta he'd them while still reforming his body. I posted the scans alot back when I used him in multiple Rumbler Leagues.

    Also that Gladiator fight had alot of things going on before hand. First he fought/broke up with the X-Men and flew away from Earth faster then Emma Frost could tag him with a thought. He then flew for 2 weeks unaided through space with his powers, then on his last ounces of power took out a massive Star Ships energy core and then flew to Shi'ar territory. He then immediately fought the Imperial Guard and took them out 1 by 1 after experiancing their diverse power sets then countering their exotic powers on the fly to kill most of them.

    Then Gladiator shows up and attacks, and Vulcan does counter him at first knocking Gladiator back with a energy blast. Gladiator then went into full Confidence mode and in the same vein as the scan from his Phoenix 5 fight(where Kid Gladiator says he has seen his Fathers power destroy stars and planets) Gladiator seriously punches Vulcan in the Eye/Face. And Vulcan isn't KO'd by said punch but his eye is damaged, which when placed next to others who have been seriously punched by Gladiator isn't that bad.

    And again this was all while Vulcan was weak and tired from his Earth Journey. After this he displayed vastly more powerful abilities like his fight with Adam Warlock where he made cosmic being flee for his life withen seconds of fighting, and then even further in his fight with Black Bolt who has been around Class 80 in strength his whole career and a master energy manipulator himself and he went to to toe with him and was getting the upper hand on the King and made him use his last resort attack by screaming in rage.

    So while I get why using the only time he was ever seriously damaged by Gladiator as a measuring stick, I don't agree that it's a good one because there were circumstances before the Gladiator punch that added to it, and then afterwards with him reforming from no body at all and calling Black Bolt stupid for thinking he can be destroyed by his scream while easily reforming himself at the same time makes me believe that simply punching him is not a weakness that one can exploit as he has Twice in short order reformed himself from no body at all, to a body that while just some muscle and bones and no skin can still fight Black Bolt hth.

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    You left out the part where Vulcan had days to recover before his fight with the Imperial Guard.

    He then flew for 2 weeks unaided through space with his powers, then on his last ounces of power took out a massive Star Ships energy core and then flew to Shi'ar territory.
    It was actually that the act of shutting down two warships took most of his power. You're otherwise saying all of flying through space for two weeks could drain him that bad.

    He then immediately fought the Imperial Guard and took them out 1 by 1 after experiancing their diverse power sets then countering their exotic powers on the fly to kill most of them.
    Nope. He had days to recover.

    And again this was all while Vulcan was weak and tired from his Earth Journey.
    He had days to recover.

    I don't agree that it's a good one
    Sure it is.

    there were circumstances before the Gladiator punch that added to it,
    Not really.

    him reforming from no body at all and calling Black Bolt stupid for thinking he can be destroyed by his scream while easily reforming himself at the same time makes me believe that simply punching him is not a weakness that one can exploit as he has Twice in short order reformed himself from no body at all, to a body that while just some muscle and bones and no skin can still fight Black Bolt hth.
    10 counted him just fine. In fact considering the sequence of events before he was able to attack again, did more than ten count him. While I'm there, Bolt was using his voice in a thing whose purpose was to use his voice to power itself to explode.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 04-13-2020 at 11:20 AM.

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