Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 38
  1. #1
    Boisterously Confused
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    9,449

    Default Why did Marvel replace the original Avengers?

    Reading a thread about teams made of less popular heroes on the DC forum got me wondering about this. Why did Lee, et al. so radically retool the Avengers in issue 16 of their original run?

    They'd begun as Marvel's Justice League; a cooperative of their world's greatest superheroes (to be fair, a cooperative of almost all the individual IPs Marvel had available at the time). Then, the title took a hard bank.

    They resolved the original Masters of Evil plot that had been running through the title for over half it's published life, kicked everybody with a feature of their own out of the book, and filled the ranks with three sympathetic reformed villains. It seems an odd choice. Hawkeye did not seem created as a standalone character, and Quicksilver and The Scarlet Witch were even less so.

    Has anyone read or heard of why Marvel made such a surprising choice?

  2. #2
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    36,493

    Default

    Avengers only had the original lineup in the first place because it was a replacement comic rushed to production. Daredevil #1 was late, so they created a book using existing characters. Then they realised Hulk wasn't a team player, and resurrected Captain America to replace him. A year later, they came up with a new concept and had Cap take in villains from X-Men and Iron Man as the new team.
    Appreciation Thread Indexes
    Marvel | Spider-Man | X-Men | NEW!! DC Comics | Batman | Superman | Wonder Woman

  3. #3
    Boisterously Confused
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    9,449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Avengers only had the original lineup in the first place because it was a replacement comic rushed to production. Daredevil #1 was late, so they created a book using existing characters. Then they realised Hulk wasn't a team player, and resurrected Captain America to replace him. A year later, they came up with a new concept and had Cap take in villains from X-Men and Iron Man as the new team.
    Yeah, I get that, but why? I doubt they were having editorial conflicts with the solo features, as Marvel was so small and tightly coordinated at the time. Was The Avengers selling poorly under the original concept? What motivated such a radical retooling?

  4. #4
    Invincible Member Kirby101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    20,471

    Default

    I wonder if Stan didn't want to keep track of the characters in their own books and the Avengers as well. Maybe all those "it happened in issue #..." were getting bothersome.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  5. #5
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    36,493

    Default

    Yeah, his memory wasn't infallible. Peter Palmer, Bob Banner?
    Appreciation Thread Indexes
    Marvel | Spider-Man | X-Men | NEW!! DC Comics | Batman | Superman | Wonder Woman

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,716

    Default

    Weren't the rest of the characters all appearing in other books back then already? I think Thor, Iron Man, Ant Man and Wasp were all getting solo stories at the time. I wonder if maybe they figured since they were already being featured in solo books that they did not need to be in a team book at the same time.

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,699

    Default

    At some point Stan Lee seemed to decide that he didn't like characters appearing in two books at once. He even forced Roy Thomas to take Captain America off the Avengers, and Iron Man, Thor and Cap never became Avengers regulars again (only guest appearances) until Thomas took over as editor.

    I read also that he didn't like having to figure out what was going on in Thor's feature and how it matched up with what was happening in the Avengers, but I don't know if it was confirmed.

    Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were all characters Marvel introduced with quite a bit of fanfare, they were "villains" who weren't really villains and were obviously being set up to turn good and play a bigger role if readers liked them. They probably wound up in the Avengers because they weren't quite popular enough for their own features and that was the only team book to put them. And so the Avengers became the team book for any character who wasn't quite popular enough to be a star, which it continued to be for a very long time.

  8. #8
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    New Richmond Ohio
    Posts
    12,246

    Default

    With The Avengers you always kind of had some heroes that wernt really popular enough for solo books. Yes you had Thor Ironman And Cap but they wernt always on the team. The ranks were filled out by the likes of Hawkeye, Wonderman, Beast, Scarlet Witch, and hell remember when Doctor Druid was on the team.

    With the Justice League the main guys have always been Superman, Batman, Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman. Really popular heroes. I cant think of many JLA teams that didnt have them on them.
    This Post Contains No Artificial Intelligence. It Contains No Human Intelligence Either.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    With The Avengers you always kind of had some heroes that wernt really popular enough for solo books. Yes you had Thor Ironman And Cap but they wernt always on the team. The ranks were filled out by the likes of Hawkeye, Wonderman, Beast, Scarlet Witch, and hell remember when Doctor Druid was on the team.

    With the Justice League the main guys have always been Superman, Batman, Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman. Really popular heroes. I cant think of many JLA teams that didnt have them on them.


    Yeah Bats and Guy were there but none of the rest.

  10. #10
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    10,054

    Default

    Wasn't the explanation that they didn't want the "big guns" overexposed? That's why for the next few years, the permanent new additions were people who didn't have their own titles like Hercules, Black Panther and the newly-created Vision.

    Note that Hank Pym and Wasp were the first founders to return to the team, as their solo feature in Tales to Astonish was cancelled and replaced with new Hulk stories.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    3,411

    Default

    There was a period when DC was publishing Marvel comics so they limited how many monthlies Marvel was allowed. I Wonder if this happened during the Avengers first new line up.

  12. #12
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    259

    Default

    Wonder what kind of sales reaction the massive change delivered!

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jebsib View Post
    Wonder what kind of sales reaction the massive change delivered!
    Roy Thomas says in his introduction to one of the Avengers Masterworks (this happened just before he joined Marvel, I think):

    "That was never an Avengers assemblage this early Merry Marvel Marcher liked as much as the original grouping - but you know what? Sales went up! Everybody wanted to see what crazy thing Stan and Jack would do next with 'Cap and the also-rans,' as they were known in my fandom circles."

  14. #14
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    The Sunless Realm
    Posts
    14,003

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post


    Yeah Bats and Guy were there but none of the rest.
    Best JL team ever!

    Wasn't Guy created for this team? Bats was the only popular / high selling character on this team.
    Namor the Sub-Mariner, Marvel's oldest character, will have been published for 85 years in 2024. So where's my GOOD Namor anniversary ongoing, Marvel?

  15. #15
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Carmel Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,426

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jebsib View Post
    Wonder what kind of sales reaction the massive change delivered!
    It was a different time. Fans back then were more accepting of the content that was being given to them. It was a true audience that wanted to be awed and entertained. The few who didn't like the line up change could easily pick up Iron Man, Thor, etc., in their own books.

    Avengers fans today are a different breed. That's not to say that Marvel couldn't take Captain America, add in 4-5 barely known villains and promote it as THE Avengers book now. But expect there to be some outrage and fall off in sales. Avengers fans today don't want to just eat the meal, they want to tell you which ingredients to buy, how to prep the meal, what utensils to use, where to cook it, how to cook it, and how to serve it. Only X-fans and perhaps Defenders fans are really more open to anything.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •