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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Default What issue was it - questions with factual answers

    Perhaps not the most discussion-inspiring thread, but I have some questions and thought a catch-all "reference" thread of sorts might get me some answers. Also thought others might like to add questions.

    I recall an issue, probably bronze age, where Ollie is about to fall to his death. He uses an arrow to get Hal's ring back to and Hal in turn saves him. Anyone remember which issue this is?

    In post-COIE, when did Dinah learn identities of Batman, Nightwing, etc.? Did she learn at all? I know there were Dixon-era issues where she did not know, but don't know if she ever knew before or after that.

    Besides each other, who were the first heroes to learn Batman and Superman's secret identities in actual stories about that? I recall the story where the Justice League all got swapped up memories and revealed them all to each other in retcon, but I'm excluding that one. Wouldn't mind first post-COIE incident, either.

    When was Superman's first non-earth-based adventure? If it was Superboy or Krypton, what was the first that wasn't either of those?

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post

    I recall an issue, probably bronze age, where Ollie is about to fall to his death. He uses an arrow to get Hal's ring back to and Hal in turn saves him. Anyone remember which issue this is?
    Fun thread!

    There is likely other instances too
    GL #121 (art Don Heck & Frank McLaughlin)




    Also wonderfully revisited in Justice. (art by Braithwaite and Ross
    Where Ollie secretly gets the ring to John!




    Last edited by Güicho; 04-11-2020 at 08:00 AM.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Thanks. Been looking for that, but I only thought of JLA, for some reason.

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Wow - I hadn't realized how many times Ollie did the "shoot the ring at GL" trick. Here's another one:
    RCO022_1467108933.jpg

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Wow - I hadn't realized how many times Ollie did the "shoot the ring at GL" trick. Here's another one:
    RCO022_1467108933.jpg
    Nice!
    Love the visual* on that one best, Ollie swoop in on a rowboat! Lol!
    The accuracy threaded between the fingers, and ring drop right into his palm, reads great!
    I'd love to see that replicated in live action, slowmo detail, or animated.
    (for the record j9ac9k's scan above is GL #84 art by Neal Adams)

    *no less sensational, is the ringless GL taking somebody out with wheelchair to the face!
    Last edited by Güicho; 04-11-2020 at 03:38 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Besides each other, who were the first heroes to learn Batman and Superman's secret identities in actual stories about that?
    Would you count Robin?

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottSloane View Post
    Would you count Robin?
    No, I really wouldn't in this context.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Besides each other, who were the first heroes to learn Batman and Superman's secret identities in actual stories about that? I recall the story where the Justice League all got swapped up memories and revealed them all to each other in retcon, but I'm excluding that one. Wouldn't mind first post-COIE incident, either.
    Batman told Jimmy Olsen his and Robins identity in an Issue of World Finest (even Jimmy didn't learn Superman's identity).
    Batgirl realized that Dick was Robin in Batman Family (and by extension that Bruce was Batman).

  9. #9
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    What a helpful idea for a thread.

    I have a question about the handling of Lady Shiva as Cassandra Cain's mother. In the "Death in the Family" storyline Lady Shiva is investigated as possibly Jason Todd's bio-mom. Under sodium-pentothal/"truth serum" she denies that she has had children. Rather more than a decade later in the real world, but considerably less than that in story, she is revealed as Cassandra Cain's mother. I've only read a little with Cass though I'd like to read more, and this strikes me as a reasonable retcon--it doesn't seem implausible that Shiva could beat the drug. But is it ever acknowledged that it is a retcon?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberfrosch View Post
    I have a question about the handling of Lady Shiva as Cassandra Cain's mother. In the "Death in the Family" storyline Lady Shiva is investigated as possibly Jason Todd's bio-mom. Under sodium-pentothal/"truth serum" she denies that she has had children. Rather more than a decade later in the real world, but considerably less than that in story, she is revealed as Cassandra Cain's mother. I've only read a little with Cass though I'd like to read more, and this strikes me as a reasonable retcon--it doesn't seem implausible that Shiva could beat the drug. But is it ever acknowledged that it is a retcon?
    The part that they thought lady Shiva was Jason mother was mentioned in Batgitl #65, you can also see Shiva being drugged, but they don't really address the contradiction.

    Shiva being Cassandra Mother lead anyway to massive ret cons. Originally Shiva's sister wasn't killed by David Cain, but by a guy named The Swiss and it happened in the bronze age (=during the time Dick was already in collage) so there would have been no way for Shiva to have teen aged daughter born afterwards. Shiva (and the Swiss) had also no real connection to the League of Assassins back then.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Can I ask -where was Shiva raised in the bronze age? I know she lived in Detroit when the Cain story was told. But I seem to recall some indication of her at least getting some training in Asia during the Sin storyline (I don't know which country, since Dinah was kept in the dark about where she was being moved at first).

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Can I ask -where was Shiva raised in the bronze age?
    IIRC it was never really explained in the Richard Dragon comics. Her sister seemed to have lived in Kyoto but that's also not that clear.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    When did Zatanna become the roughly same age as Bruce and a former love interest? I know originally she was younger than them, and in and New Adv. Superboy comic (#53) the letters page indicates she's still a bit younger than Clark and Bruce in the 1980s. So, post-COIE, presumably, but when in particular?
    Last edited by Tzigone; 05-10-2020 at 12:09 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    When did Zatanna become the roughly same age as Bruce and a former love interest? I know originally she was younger than them, and in and New Adv. Superboy comic (#53) the letters page indicates she's still a bit younger than Clark and Bruce in the 1980s. So, post-COIE, presumably, but when in particular?
    I only remember Zatanna being portrayed as Bruce’s former love interest in BTAS and the Batman Streets of Gotham series

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    I only remember Zatanna being portrayed as Bruce’s former love interest in BTAS and the Batman Streets of Gotham series
    Okay. I knew it happened in DCAU, but thought it had showed up in a comic without any idea where. So, were they similarly aged in that comic? Or do you know if she has/had any established age in the comics? Most of my reading of her is old pre-COIE JLA, so I'm a bit in the dark.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 05-10-2020 at 12:20 PM.

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