Does DC Need to Do More with their "Big Bruiser"/"Big Bad" Villains?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

The definition of a "big bad" can vary depending on the context, but for this discussion, it refers to the powerful, world-ending, cosmic conqueror-level villains. So, a lot of DC's most compelling and most popular villains tend to be the street-level guys or characters, who, if thrust into a world-conqueror role, would seem out of place: Joker, Bane, Two-Face, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Deathstroke, Captain Cold, etc. And don't get me wrong, that is not a bad thing. In fact, one of the things that makes those guys compelling is their down-to-Earth quality. However, I was just wondering why not many of DC's most mentioned villains are their world-ending cosmic tyrants.

The exceptions to that are Sinestro, Lex Luthor (sometimes), Brainiac, Black Adam, the Anti-Monitor, and of course, Darkseid. However, even of the ones I just mentioned, there are caveats.

And it's not like DC doesn't have more of those types of villains. They do. But DC seemingly benches a lot of them in favor of other characters from more popular franchises. When was the last time Mongul was a universe-wide threat? We last saw Krona as a big threat was back in like 2011 (almost a full decade ago) during the War of the Green Lanterns arc IIRC. Ra's al Ghul I think is used effectively as is and is one of DC's best villains, but I wouldn't call him a cosmic threat. Vandal Savage has the potential to rise to the level of a cosmic-conqueror type and, if anything, I think the Young Justice animated series uses him to his full potential, but he's not so used in the comics. General Zod can be such a villain but he's rarely seen outside of Superman books. Doomsday is not a conqueror but a rampaging monster. Trigon could absolutely be that level of a villain, but he hasn't been taken seriously as a threat since the Wolfman/Perez NTT run and every subsequent appearance of his seems to try and rehash that arc. I don't know if Ares despite being a literal god has ever even appeared outside of a Wonder Woman comic.

Like, why isn't Lex going to war against Ares or Vandal Savage in the current Year of the Villain arc instead of just another Batman character?

[MadFacedKid]

Brainiac could be fun on Odyssey. Heck given the theme of the book you could throw a lot of cosmic big bads into that book.


Brainiac vs Aquaman could be fun too, if I’m not mistaken Atlantis is already domed up for him
The idea of Aquaman vs Ras or Vandal Savage sounds like it could be fun as well. You could easily throw the Greek Gods in the direction of either Shazam or Aquaman. I liked the interactions between Aquaman and Ares in the Injustice game.


Vandal Savage vs Shazam?
Trigon could easily appear in JL Dark

Plot wise I don’t know how Lex going against Ares would make sense, but you could easily bring Vandal back an elevate him implying he was expecting all of this perpetua stuff to go the way it did and he had contingencies on his survival. Heck have him team up with BWL

[LordMikel]

Brainiac could be fun on Odyssey. Heck given the theme of the book you could throw a lot of cosmic big bads into that book.


Brainiac vs Aquaman could be fun too, if I’m not mistaken Atlantis is already domed up for him
The idea of Aquaman vs Ras or Vandal Savage sounds like it could be fun as well. You could easily throw the Greek Gods in the direction of either Shazam or Aquaman. I liked the interactions between Aquaman and Ares in the Injustice game.


Vandal Savage vs Shazam?
Trigon could easily appear in JL Dark

Plot wise I don’t know how Lex going against Ares would make sense, but you could easily bring Vandal back an elevate him implying he was expecting all of this perpetua stuff to go the way it did and he had contingencies on his survival. Heck have him team up with BWL

Savage vs Shazam would be interesting.

Savage: Haven't I fought you before?
Shazam: No?
Savage: No, I did, it was like 500 years ago, are you saying you don't remember?"

Since I believe a few people have been Shazam over the years, it might be interesting to do flashbacks of earlier fights.

[Restingvoice]

People may read for the plot but they'll get attached to characters eventually. Cosmic scale villains don't generate as much interest because they're not personal. They don't get to the heroes as much as someone like Joker does to Batman, and so they don't stick to the reader's emotion as much.
That's from audience point of view, but creators used to be the audience, so they gravitate to the personal stuff as well.

[MadFacedKid]

Savage vs Black Adam would be fun as well

[Zero Hunter]

Big bad cosmic types should only be used when the story calls for it. There is nothing worse than seeing a cosmic level threat jobbed by a hero who has no business even taking them on. You see this so much at marvel with guys like Thanos getting jobbed all the time.

[Adekis]

Big bad cosmic types should only be used when the story calls for it. There is nothing worse than seeing a cosmic level threat jobbed by a hero who has no business even taking them on. You see this so much at marvel with guys like Thanos getting jobbed all the time.

That's fair.

I was thinking the other day, Lobo's effectiveness has been stretched so far in both directions that he's gone toe-to-toe with Superman, but also has lost a fight to Just Hal Jordan With No Ring. Now Lobo has rarely been set up as a big deal Cosmic Villain, but I think anyone who's killed the entire population of a planet, lives in space and fights Superman probably could be regarded as at least kind of a Cosmic Villain.

My favorite Cosmic Villains are probably Brainiac and Mongul, and it's important, I think, to remember that Mongul was designed to go up against the Silver Age Superman as a physical threat! I think Superman's decrease in power in adaptations like JL:TAS or even just the post-Crisis era in general, has led to a broad sense that Mongul is much weaker than Superman, and only keeps up with the Man of Steel because Kal is jobbing - much like Lobo's fights with him often play out. That's not the case at all, and I welcome treatments of him as a bigger, badder villain.

Apparently Bendis has been doing good work with Mongul in Action Comics recently, sending him up against a dozen aliens in a desperate attempt to stop Superman from founding the United Planets. I haven't been reading that book myself, but I think that sounds pretty cool.

Lastly, there's a lot of forgotten Cosmic Villains from the Silver Age who could be brought back. I'd love to see the return of Drang the Destroyer, aka Doctor Supernatural, who ran circles around Supergirl for like three issues in 1965, and then disappeared forever! And the likes of Mantis, or Slig of the Deep Six, indicate to me that the Fourth World is a pretty good breeding ground for villains - even if usually only Darkseid gets the spotlight.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

People may read for the plot but they'll get attached to characters eventually. Cosmic scale villains don't generate as much interest because they're not personal. They don't get to the heroes as much as someone like Joker does to Batman, and so they don't stick to the reader's emotion as much.
That's from audience point of view, but creators used to be the audience, so they gravitate to the personal stuff as well.

But is that a result of their inherent characteristics or as a result of how much they're used and invested in? I mean, the Joker is as popular as he is partly because so many stories have been told with him and he's done so much to Batman and the Bat-family. Meanwhile, over at Marvel, a lot of the popular, compelling villains tend to be powerful big, bads: Dr. Doom, Magneto, Galactus, Thanos, Loki, Kang the Conqueror, Ultron, Apocolypse, etc.

Big bad cosmic types should only be used when the story calls for it. There is nothing worse than seeing a cosmic level threat jobbed by a hero who has no business even taking them on. You see this so much at marvel with guys like Thanos getting jobbed all the time.

But that's the thing. Even when the story calls for it, they tend to still ignore some of their big bads. I mean, who is the main villain of the Year of the Villain event? Yet another Batman-derivative character as opposed to maybe someone like Ares, Vandal Savage, or even Mongul.