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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member WillieMorgan's Avatar
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    It's just an age and nostalgia thing isn't it? If you were a part of 'Generation X' or the 'Slacker generation' as they were variously labelled at the time then you'll probably remember this period fondly. If your memory stretches back farther than that then these years just seemed dumb and excessive mostly. Of course I'm in the latter category.

    The whole aesthetic of the 1990's comic book scene and it's tropes were just vulgar to me and actually drove me away for a few years, something that would be unthinkable now. But hey, the 90's did produce some good runs despite all that and also produced Kingdom Come so it wasn't all bad. Had I been a decade younger then I may have considered it 'EXTREEM TO THE MAX DUUUDE!!'. Good, bad or ugly? Definitely ugly.
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  2. #32
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    Even though I started reading comics in the 90s - which means my love of the decade might be due to nostalgia - I actually think that it is due to the fact that - in the case of DC - it was a time when the publisher FULLY embraced its legacy aspect. New heroes sporting old names were at the forefront of the company, and in the case if irreplaceable characters (such as Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman), you still had a bunch of sidekicks/wannabes with their own title (i.e. Robin, Nightwing, Azrael in the case of Batman, and Steel, and Superboy in the case of Superman).

    Another aspect that I remember, one I don't see nearly enough nowadays, is that heroes tended to crossover (or rather 'feature') in each other titles much more frequently, which gave the impression of a more cohesive, interconnected universe, on the one side, and sort of real friendship/camaraderie between the heroes, on the other.

  3. #33
    Spectacular Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillieMorgan View Post
    It's just an age and nostalgia thing isn't it? If you were a part of 'Generation X' or the 'Slacker generation' as they were variously labelled at the time then you'll probably remember this period fondly. If your memory stretches back farther than that then these years just seemed dumb and excessive mostly. Of course I'm in the latter category.

    The whole aesthetic of the 1990's comic book scene and it's tropes were just vulgar to me and actually drove me away for a few years, something that would be unthinkable now. But hey, the 90's did produce some good runs despite all that and also produced Kingdom Come so it wasn't all bad. Had I been a decade younger then I may have considered it 'EXTREEM TO THE MAX DUUUDE!!'. Good, bad or ugly? Definitely ugly.
    More likely its you and your generation thats caught up in the nostalgia effect... and by the time the 90s hit you were to old to appreciate the groundbreaking works of the 90s... ???? I mean it can go both ways...


    Ive dipped into 1930s-1980s books and thus far havent found anything really grabbing me.

    Would you recommend collected runs from "your era" ... I'm definitely interested in reading some or the best from further back.

  4. #34
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    My rereading has brought me into the early 1990s. One of the things I've noticed that the 90s don't deserve all the flack they get for is fan-boy fetish art.

    Now don't get me wrong, it seems like illustrators in the 1990s really stomped on the gas with fetishism, but it wasn't purely a function of the 1990s. You can find titilating art all the way back in the 1930s. Perez really seems to have gone for it starting with NTT #1 in 1980, and others slowly, but steadily picked it up. By the time the 1990s rolled around, creators like Leifeld were heavy into it.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member WillieMorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    More likely its you and your generation thats caught up in the nostalgia effect... and by the time the 90s hit you were to old to appreciate the groundbreaking works of the 90s... ???? I mean it can go both ways...


    Ive dipped into 1930s-1980s books and thus far havent found anything really grabbing me.

    Would you recommend collected runs from "your era" ... I'm definitely interested in reading some or the best from further back.
    I can't comment on the reading habits of the other posters who've been negative so far on this thread but I personally still read a lot of DC on a regular basis, something that I don't think I would be doing if I was purely motivated by nostalgia. I also never said that there was anything wrong with that emotion either, it can sometimes provide great comfort to people. The responses on this thread so far pretty much proves that, for many fans of early 90's DC, they just happened to be the right age at the time though.

    The fact that I'm still reading and enjoying DC means that I don't really think of any time as 'my era'. I'd certainly recommend things like 'The New Teen Titans, Saga Of The Swamp Thing' or 'Superman: Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow?' though. Thing is, you'll inevitably find parts of them dated. That's just inevitable when you engage with older pop culture through modern eyes. Your description 'groundbreaking works of the 90's' was quite amusing to me though. I'll kind of ask the same question of you. Care to name any? I'm talking about from that very specific early 90's period that the opening post and accompanying video are relating to.
    Lower The Pissing Winch!

  6. #36
    Incredible Member The no face guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillieMorgan View Post
    It's just an age and nostalgia thing isn't it? If you were a part of 'Generation X' or the 'Slacker generation' as they were variously labelled at the time then you'll probably remember this period fondly. If your memory stretches back farther than that then these years just seemed dumb and excessive mostly. Of course I'm in the latter category.

    The whole aesthetic of the 1990's comic book scene and it's tropes were just vulgar to me and actually drove me away for a few years, something that would be unthinkable now. But hey, the 90's did produce some good runs despite all that and also produced Kingdom Come so it wasn't all bad. Had I been a decade younger then I may have considered it 'EXTREEM TO THE MAX DUUUDE!!'. Good, bad or ugly? Definitely ugly.
    Darkness in comics was always there, it started to come back in the 70's but Frank Miller's Batman (and other titles) in the late 80's took the darkness to a new level, which changed the direction of comics in the 90's to be somewhat over the top with the violence and grittiness. The character nihilism of that period of killing of or damaging iconic superheroes for profit drove me away from comics to.

    It wasn't just comics though, the late 80's early 90's was filled with violent and aggressive imagery in the media, from the gangster movie craze of endless Pulp Fiction movies to the rise of gangster rap and death/black metal. It took a decade or so to burn itself out, hopefully we don't revisit it anytime soon, comics in the 2000's were so much better.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    Darkness in comics was always there, it started to come back in the 70's but Frank Miller's Batman (and other titles) in the late 80's took the darkness to a new level, which changed the direction of comics in the 90's to be somewhat over the top with the violence and grittiness. The character nihilism of that period of killing of or damaging iconic superheroes for profit drove me away from comics to.

    It wasn't just comics though, the late 80's early 90's was filled with violent and aggressive imagery in the media, from the gangster movie craze of endless Pulp Fiction movies to the rise of gangster rap and death/black metal. It took a decade or so to burn itself out, hopefully we don't revisit it anytime soon, comics in the 2000's were so much better.
    Comics in the 2000s were far more violent than almost anything we got in the 90s. DC in the 2000s gave us Sue Dibny being raped, Wonder Dog killing Wendy and Marv, Bludhaven getting nuked and various teenage characters being maimed or killed.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    I think a lot of the mainstream books ended up being affected by the worst excesses of the 90's, but it was also the time of embracing "indie" sensibilities and DC more than Marvel had a lot of good things that came from that period where they seemed to take more chances and experiment a bit. That's the 90's stuff that I liked from DC.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member WillieMorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    Darkness in comics was always there, it started to come back in the 70's but Frank Miller's Batman (and other titles) in the late 80's took the darkness to a new level, which changed the direction of comics in the 90's to be somewhat over the top with the violence and grittiness. The character nihilism of that period of killing of or damaging iconic superheroes for profit drove me away from comics to.

    It wasn't just comics though, the late 80's early 90's was filled with violent and aggressive imagery in the media, from the gangster movie craze of endless Pulp Fiction movies to the rise of gangster rap and death/black metal. It took a decade or so to burn itself out, hopefully we don't revisit it anytime soon, comics in the 2000's were so much better.
    That's a good point. I think the biggest and most destructive trend of that period was the fact that many of the prominent artists of the time insisted on writing as well. They then tried to take inspiration from genuinely ground-breaking comics from the previous decade, superb genre defining series like ''The Dark Knight Returns, Hellblazer' and 'Watchmen', and found that they could only replicate the dark atmospheres and visual violence, as opposed to their story beats and intelligent structure. The huge leap forward in story-telling complexity and characterisation that had been present in, say, Alan Moore's finest work ended up getting lost and replaced with piss-poor writing, paper-thin plots and vacuous anti-heroes.

    That development, writer-artists or the Image template if you will, created work that was largely just a pale facsimile of far better written material from the previous decade. All blood and breasts but no substance. The likes of Rob Liefeld just didn't have the ability to write genuinely gripping comics and we were left with over-the-top storylines and lurid art styles.
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  10. #40
    Incredible Member The no face guy's Avatar
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    No argument there. To me the sole of a comic book has always been the writer. I can tolerate bad art, that has a great writer, but not the reserve. Unless an artist shows the credentials to be a great writer, artists should stick to strictly drawing.

    If you don't have a good writer, you don't have a good comic, no matter how well drawn it is.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
    Two series that I haven't seen mentioned yet, Impulse and Power of Shazam! Both of those series are in my top 5 DC runs as well.
    I can't believe I forgot Impulse!!!
    Ramos' thought balloons were pitch perfect.
    The first two years in particular were stellar.
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
    I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Jekyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    I can't believe I forgot Impulse!!!
    Ramos' thought balloons were pitch perfect.
    The first two years in particular were stellar.
    I’m re-reading right now and those thought balloons are hilarious. So much fun.
    AKA FlashFreak
    Favorite Characters:
    DC: The Flash (Jay & Wally), The Atom (Ray Palmer) , Jack Knight, Stargirl, & Shazam!.
    MARVEL: Daredevil, Spider-Man (Peter Parker), Iron Fist, Doctor Strange, & Ant-Man (Scott Lang).

    Current Pulls: Daredevil, Amazing Spider-Man, Venom, Immortal Hulk, The Flash, & TMNT!

  13. #43
    Spectacular Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillieMorgan View Post
    I can't comment on the reading habits of the other posters who've been negative so far on this thread but I personally still read a lot of DC on a regular basis, something that I don't think I would be doing if I was purely motivated by nostalgia. I also never said that there was anything wrong with that emotion either, it can sometimes provide great comfort to people. The responses on this thread so far pretty much proves that, for many fans of early 90's DC, they just happened to be the right age at the time though.

    The fact that I'm still reading and enjoying DC means that I don't really think of any time as 'my era'. I'd certainly recommend things like 'The New Teen Titans, Saga Of The Swamp Thing' or 'Superman: Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow?' though. Thing is, you'll inevitably find parts of them dated. That's just inevitable when you engage with older pop culture through modern eyes. Your description 'groundbreaking works of the 90's' was quite amusing to me though. I'll kind of ask the same question of you. Care to name any? I'm talking about from that very specific early 90's period that the opening post and accompanying video are relating to.


    If we were supposed to specifically be talking about 1990 to 1993, ie, "early 90s" then you are likely correct... nothing eventful happened then or very little... based on what I saw in the video and read I assumed the 90s as a whole decade.

    Okay lets cover a few things.

    THE EARLY POSTED VIDEO

    Firstly I dont take these youtubers seriously. Ive seen videos by these guys before, they are usually painful. There videos mostly arent good. That 1 hour of annoying banter. Not thoughtful insight.

    THE EARLY 90S

    BLUE SUPERMAN followed the big Final Night event which mostly focused on Kyle Rayner and Parallax... published 1996. BLUE SUPERMAN and the Transformed story arc came out 97-98...

    So in no way is that video only about early 90s works.

    Even Knightfall and Kyle Rayner are 94 stories and that's still mid-90s... not early.

    As far as great early comics, and ground breaking stuff... off the top of my head the Death, Funeral, Reign and Return of Superman arcs started in 92 and are awesome. I read maybe 10 issues back in the 90s, and in 2017 collected the collected 5 trades books. Love most of it!



    Mark Waids Flash Volume 1 is 90s to 93 I think and he went for a long time redefining the Flash in a few oversized volumes... Read v1 in 2018.


    Ultimately the first comic book I read was a birthday gift to my older brother from our aunt. It was Superman 75 The Death of Superman. So 92. As far a a victim of nostalgia I only collected casually from 92 to 98... about 40 floppies and a few trades. I did not collect for decades after that.

    I started collecting again around 2016 and was 30ish. Half my collection is Flashpoint forward to new releases and half pre-flashpoint to as old as 1970s.

    I was 7 in 92 and 13 in 98... ultimately I didnt collect many comics then cause I spent more time outdoors and sporting and by 14 I was all about concerts, girls and video games so comics were low on the radar... didnt read enough to become nostalgic of the period. So while my opinion is subjective as all ours are... as far as nostalgia wise... I'm objective.

    Knightfall (93-94 so mid-90s) was amazing but I read it in 2019. I heard about it and saw the books in stores but never read any of it as a 9 year old. It's groundbreaking because of the impact it had on Batman, Bane the new villian, and the fact Chris Nolan made a major motion picture inspired loosely by it... granted the film was only okay. And that it's on many top 10 and top 20 lists. Even CBR has it on a list.

    Blue Superman while not well received is one of my favourite runs of all time. I own Every Single Appearance of Blue Superman. From every Final Night issue to Superman Transformed, the collector issue 123 featured in the video and the millennium giant 12 issue finale and his rebirth as normal superman in Superman Forever.

    Sorry to say the female commentator is an idiot and didnt read the arc or have any idea about issue 123 1997 19.

    123 is his actual Transformation into Blue Superman, it's the end of the main run involving his change... not the beginning. It's not a #1 and it doesn't claim to be. She retarded and her comments are nonsensical.

    Final Night is how he loses his powers. Its collected as 4 issues. And Superman Transformed pics up right after Final Night.

    It collects
    Superman Transformed
    Action Comics #729 and 732, Adventures of Superman (1939-2006) #542 and 545, Superman (1987- ) #119 and 122-123, and Superman: The Man of Steel (1991-2003) #64 and 67


    Make note issue 123 is in there. The issue she has is a collectors cover of 1 issue of a story. No matter what floppy you pick up of any book for the most part, if you only read 1 floppy you will likely have a bad time and have no idea whats going on. This is a major event and the Transformations takes place over many issues, but the Transformed trade is more then enough to get the story. Not 1 soul floppy issue.

    Kyle Rayner also mentioned in the video is awesome, his first Volume is a bit weak, specifically the art but I own bunch of floppies from later in his mid 90s run. His first appearance is 1994... so not early and is groundbreaking as a successful replacement to Hal and he's been going strong for 25 years.

    I loved the DC vs Marvel of 96... intend to collect more of this.

    Dc Comics Major Bummer... from the creators of the Mask. Amazing art 97 I believe. Collected by Dark Horse later, all 15 issues, no idea why this didn't take off but if you love Slacker humor and satirical superheroes, get the Super Slacktacular tpb.


    Havent read these yet but are acclaimed
    Batman No man's and, cataclysm, long halloween, believe these are all 96-99
    Jsa the golden age 93-94
    Kingdom come
    JLA New World Order


    NEW52 or the 90s

    As far as the vocal... many people claim New52 era of DC is horrible, yet I own many New52 books that are awesome, at least to me... i feel the same way about the 90s or any era for that matter, do some digging, ask around, and sift through the books of each era and your bound to find stuff you love.

    You've mentioned a few older books and they'll go on my read list....

    I also attached a few photos of my Blue Superman collections... usually I only buy trades but these runs aren't fully collected.


    received_224026362213648.jpg

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    received_677017186399595.jpg
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    received_686528952095280.jpg
    Last edited by Menacer; 04-17-2020 at 10:19 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    If we were supposed to specifically be talking about 1990 to 1993, ie, "early 90s" then you are likely correct... nothing eventful happened then or very little... based on what I saw in the video and read I assumed the 90s as a whole decade.

    Okay lets cover a few things.

    THE EARLY POSTED VIDEO

    Firstly I dont take these youtubers seriously. Ive seen videos by these guys before, they are usually painful. There videos mostly arent good. That 1 hour of annoying banter. Not thoughtful insight.

    THE EARLY 90S

    BLUE SUPERMAN followed the big Final Night event which mostly focused on Kyle Rayner and Parallax... published 1996. BLUE SUPERMAN and the Transformed story arc came out 97-98...

    So in no way is that video only about early 90s works.

    Even Knightfall and Kyle Rayner are 94 stories and that's still mid-90s... not early.

    As far as great early comics, and ground breaking stuff... off the top of my head the Death, Funeral, Reign and Return of Superman arcs started in 92 and are awesome. I read maybe 10 issues back in the 90s, and in 2017 collected the collected 5 trades books. Love most of it!



    Mark Waids Flash Volume 1 is 90s to 93 I think and he went for a long time redefining the Flash in a few oversized volumes... Read v1 in 2018.


    Ultimately the first comic book I read was a birthday gift to my older brother from our aunt. It was Superman 75 The Death of Superman. So 92. As far a a victim of nostalgia I only collected casually from 92 to 98... about 40 floppies and a few trades. I did not collect for decades after that.

    I started collecting again around 2016 and was 30ish. Half my collection is Flashpoint forward to new releases and half pre-flashpoint to as old as 1970s.

    I was 7 in 92 and 13 in 98... ultimately I didnt collect many comics then cause I spent more time outdoors and sporting and by 14 I was all about concerts, girls and video games so comics were low on the radar... didnt read enough to become nostalgic of the period. So while my opinion is subjective as all ours are... as far as nostalgia wise... I'm objective.

    Knightfall (93-94 so mid-90s) was amazing but I read it in 2019. I heard about it and saw the books in stores but never read any of it as a 9 year old. It's groundbreaking because of the impact it had on Batman, Bane the new villian, and the fact Chris Nolan made a major motion picture inspired loosely by it... granted the film was only okay. And that it's on many top 10 and top 20 lists. Even CBR has it on a list.

    Blue Superman while not well received is one of my favourite runs of all time. I own Every Single Appearance of Blue Superman. From every Final Night issue to Superman Transformed, the collector issue 123 featured in the video and the millennium giant 12 issue finale and his rebirth as normal superman in Superman Forever.

    Sorry to say the female commentator is an idiot and didnt read the arc or have any idea about issue 123 1997 19.

    123 is his actual Transformation into Blue Superman, it's the end of the main run involving his change... not the beginning. It's not a #1 and it doesn't claim to be. She retarded and her comments are nonsensical.

    Final Night is how he loses his powers. Its collected as 4 issues. And Superman Transformed pics up right after Final Night.

    It collects
    Superman Transformed
    Action Comics #729 and 732, Adventures of Superman (1939-2006) #542 and 545, Superman (1987- ) #119 and 122-123, and Superman: The Man of Steel (1991-2003) #64 and 67


    Make note issue 123 is in there. The issue she has is a collectors cover of 1 issue of a story. No matter what floppy you pick up of any book for the most part, if you only read 1 floppy you will likely have a bad time and have no idea whats going on. This is a major event and the Transformations takes place over many issues, but the Transformed trade is more then enough to get the story. Not 1 soul floppy issue.

    Kyle Rayner also mentioned in the video is awesome, his first Volume is a bit weak, specifically the art but I own bunch of floppies from later in his mid 90s run. His first appearance is 1994... so not early and is groundbreaking as a successful replacement to Hal and he's been going strong for 25 years.

    I loved the DC vs Marvel of 96... intend to collect more of this.

    Dc Comics Major Bummer... from the creators of the Mask. Amazing art 97 I believe. Collected by Dark Horse later, all 15 issues, no idea why this didn't take off but if you love Slacker humor and satirical superheroes, get the Super Slacktacular tpb.


    Havent read these yet but are acclaimed
    Batman No man's and, cataclysm, long halloween, believe these are all 96-99
    Jsa the golden age 93-94
    Kingdom come
    JLA New World Order


    NEW52 or the 90s

    As far as the vocal... many people claim New52 era of DC is horrible, yet I own many New52 books that are awesome, at least to me... i feel the same way about the 90s or any era for that matter, do some digging, ask around, and sift through the books of each era and your bound to find stuff you love.

    You've mentioned a few older books and they'll go on my read list....

    I also attached a few photos ofmy Final Night and Blue Superman collections... usually I only buy trades but these runs aren't fully collected.


    received_224026362213648.jpg

    .
    received_677017186399595.jpg
    .
    received_686528952095280.jpg
    I was re-reading the Superman Blue (and Red) epic just last week. Maaaan, epic times. The 90s is so cool.

    You had a return to the 'Big 7' in the JL, and then BOOM! it was extended to form one of the classiest teams there is. No JL title has come close to Morrison's and Waid's JL.

    You had Kyle as a GL, and Hal as the best villain in the DCU.

    The Titans being a family (for the last time ever since).

    Heroes crossing and starring in each other titles, and referencing each other constantly.

    And while it was "dark" it was def not Superboy Prime dark.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I just watched this yesterday! It's a great YouTube channel for comic book fans. I liked the part where they wondered if Alex should just take the ring from Kyle since he wasn't really getting it and she seemed much more on top of things. I had a similar thought reading it as well. Too bad they decided to go the fridge way instead...
    Cool! Glad you enjoyed it.

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